J

John Courte

Well Known Member
Last week I bought a mid-time O-360-F1A6. The owner drove it down from WA in the back of a pickup truck, tied down properly, as far as I could tell. I hacked up an engine stand from the directions on mikesplayground.net and it seems to be working great. I'm able to rotate the engine and I've already taken the starter, the vac pump, and the old Cessna baffles off.


But here's the problem: I don't have the first clue as to what to do next. I'm also scared stupid because after pulling the spark plug, there was a nice fur of rust around the bottom of the plug, but a look inside the open exhaust valve shows a shiny, hone-patterened cylinder. What's the process for getting this engine looked at by someone who actually knows what they're doing, and assessing the costs to make it airworthy and preserve it until it's time to hang it?

I'm also a bit lost in the woods because my air compressor is down at the moment and there's not a lot of places I'm currently working on inside the fuse where my cordless drill will fit.
 
Hire a licensed aircraft mechanic to compression check it, open the oil filter and dial the crank. (about $100) If it's all good, spray WD-40 in all sparkplug holes, install descecant plugs in the cylinders, put fresh oil in the crankcase, rotate the engine physically upside down so fresh oil will coat the camshaft. Should be good to go in a couple of years.
 
Do whatever is necessary to get a look at the cam. If there is rust anywhere that will cause you a big problem down the road it will be on the cams.
 
I'd take a closer look inside.

Is this a high time engine, or one of those underwater Katrina engines? On one of those Katrina engines, I asked the seller if he had drained the water out of the engine in the three months since? He said that the thought never occurred to him! I passed.

Check for even a light hint of rust on the cylinders (which would eat up the rings). Use a brass brazing rod with a piece of white cloth pinched to the end of the rod. Insert that into the spark plug hole and rub the cloth against the cylinder wall. If there is any rust, it will plainly be seen on that white piece of cloth. If you find ANY rust, you should pull that engine apart and rebuild it. It doesn't take much to pull a cylinder off. You can check for proper ring gap at that time too. Perhaps even pull one rod off and measure the out-of-round on the rod journal. The maximum service limit wear would be .0005 (a half a thousands). Once you get it apart, you may luck out and find everything within service limits or better. You may be able to just hone the cylinders, install new rings and bearings, new oil pump gears, send the crank out to polished and getting the counterweights rebushed, having the lifters refaced, etc. It only costs a few hundred to get the Cam resurfaced. If the engine was in worse than serivce limits wear, would you want to fly it anyway? Not me. At least you don't have to worry about an RPM prop restriction.

Magnetos are easy to rebuild. Just don't go flipping the mag shaft over to see if you get a spark. Doing that can cause a ruined coil by arcing the spark through the coil's insulation. I did that once with a brand new coil! Also, don't put the magneto shaft down on steel or iron. It will cause a loss of magnetism and the resultant weaker spark. There isn't that much to rebuilding the engine. Just make sure that everything is perfect when it goes back together. It's a good learning experience.

This is coming from a guy who just simply cannot go out and buy a new or rebuilt engine. I'll have to do it on the cheap.
 
It's got 951 SMOH hours on it and was pulled running from a C172 RG back in 2001. The previous owner says that he kept it flooded with oil, but after checking the condition of the spark plugs, I'm not so sure. The cylinders look pretty wet, he says he drained it before bringing it down to L.A. from Camas, WA.

Is there any way to get a look at the camshaft without tearing the engine completely apart? I really don't have any special lyc engine tools either, so I'm not even sure if I can pull a cylinder without the special jug wrenches. How do I check for service limits, do I start calling A&P's and see if they make house calls?

It really is amazing, the coyote-off-a-cliff feeling I've got with this project. I presumed I knew just enough to get by and learn what I didn't know in the process, but I haven't hit a wall like this before.

I do have 8qts of Aeroshell 50 and two quarts of preservative oil, along with dehydrator plugs, but should I repickle the engine before I find out more about it?
 
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Can't help you with your rust question, but a couple other things come to mind that need to be addressed.

I called Lycoming when I got my engine and they said they had never evaluated whether storing the engine with it hanging horizontally from the prop flange was OK. I was asking because I was concerned about the stresses of all that weight hanging way out there. They preferred that they be stored vertically.

Secondly, I asked about preservation--it was a used engine and didn't have preservation oil. They said to fill it entirely with the cheapest auto oil I could find. It took just under 7 gallons. I was also warned that it would leak a little and it has leaked maybe one tablespoon in 5 months.
 
it's hanging from the dynafocal mounts, not the prop flange.

7 gallons? not quarts? Wow. But I guess that's all the way to the top of the case, which would make sense. And are you storing it upside down as some have suggested?
 
Hummm. Sounds like you don't have any engine building experience with automobile or airplane engines. Maybe there is an EAA Chapter near you and someone who can give you good advice on the engine. Really...most small airplane engines are easier to work on than modern automobile engines, but you have to at least know the basics. One basic is to measure tolerances and have the tools to do it. It's all pretty much easy if you just take one section of the engine at a time and know a few basic rules and use common sense. Once you learn, you'll then look back and realize that all it took was for someone to show you how. They teach you, and then you teach someone else.
 
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John Courte said:
It's got 951 SMOH hours on it and was pulled running from a C172 RG back in 2001. The previous owner says that he kept it flooded with oil, but after checking the condition of the spark plugs, I'm not so sure. The cylinders look pretty wet, he says he drained it before bringing it down to L.A. from Camas, WA.
Call the owner back and verify that "flooded with oil" means it was completely filled with oil. As in 7-8 GALLONS of oil. If the cylinders are wet and shiny, that may have been what he meant. If so, I wouldn't worry about the engine, just fill it back up with cheap 5 weight oil and set it aside until you need it. The cam at the top must be covered with oil. Stored like that, it will keep indefinately.

I wouldn't worry about the rust on the plugs, unless it was actually on the threads or any other part that's inside the cylinder. If it's been stored in an unheated hangar for seven years, there's going to be superficial rust on the outside of the engine.

When you get close to needing the engine, you can get an A&P to pull a cylinder to inspect the cam and the crank and general condition to see if he thinks it needs an overhaul. If it's been stored properly, there's a good chance it won't need anything but a carb overhaul, but I'd get a pro to look at it.
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The brown fur on the plugs was around the contact at the end, inside the cylinder. It looks like rust to me. I've pulled apart the odd Briggs and Stratton or two, and I once topped an Olds 350 rocket, but none of those projects were likely to have much more repercussion than a long walk to a pay phone (this was in the 80's).

I have a friend who's an A&P, so if I can ever find his contact info, I'll bribe him with BBQ and cold beer to come over with some tools and give the engine a once over.

Thanks you guys, I feel like I have the beginnings of a plan now.
 
Pull a Jug

Get your A&P to pull a jug and get a good look at the cam..That will tell you a lot..At least it will enable you to sleep at night if it looks good..:)

Frank
 
Washington had its own type of Katrina when Centralia was flooded last December. The link has an image of the airport. The group of white dots in the left corner of the flooded area are planes based at the field on the high ground. I understand almost all of the planes were saved. But this is worth asking about. Camas is about 100 mi south of Centralia. Also see the avweb link.

http://www.hq.usace.army.mil/cepa/pubs/jan08/story1.htm
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/WashingtonAirportRisesAboveFlood_196771-1.html
 
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