jthocker

Well Known Member
Had an interesting situation today that may help some folks make a decision on what oil cooler to buy.

A bunch of the Cincy River Rats participated in the 24th annual Flying Knights Air Rally at Lunken Airport today. 30 airplanes participated altogether in 20 flights. The 2 flights of RV's (5 each) went last. Our flight of 5 taxied out last. Imagine if you will, a long line of airplanes on a 90 deg. day, at a towered field on a busy Saturday. By the time our flight was cleared for takeoff everyones oil temps were between 215 and 240 degrees for all in the flight. Once off twr. freq. and onto race discreet freq. there were multiple calls for lead to push it up past our normal 130 knot formation speed. Much to leads chagrin his flight became a chatterbox of oil temp comparisons.
Of particular interest would be the comparison Scott Hersha's RV8, my RV8 and Larry Wolf's RV8(formerly 5JT). All three planes are equipped and built nearly identically. The particulars are as follows:

Scott ECI O-360 A1A 9 to 1 pistons, 4164 carb., Vans oil cooler II

Jon ECI O-360 A1A 9 to 1's, 3878 carb., Stewart Warner cooler Model # 8406R
Larry ECI 0-360 A1A 8.5 to 1's 4164 carb. Positech oil cooler

At top of climb to 2500 MSL our oil temps probably were about 230 deg.'s

About 20 minutes later they had cooled alot and when they finally stabilized
a check showed Larry at 200, Scott at 190, and Jon at 180. To be fair I will say that Larry's is equipped with an oil shutter that still provides a restriction to the cooling air even when fully open. We will remove that shutter for summer flying.

The SW oil cooler costs twice as much as the Vans oil cooler II, and the positech is even cheaper.

The SW allowed the oil temps to cool faster than the others and appears to be worth about 10 degrees of additional cooling over the others.

This was a pretty good comparison because the 3 planes are baffled and cowled identically, were started, taxied and flown in formation.
Take this information for what it's worth, I think the Van's oil cooler in the kit is just fine, if I was to do it again I'd get it, instead of the SW.
 
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Update

Scott and I did pretty thorough comparison flight(s) today.
Here's what we did. Start up at same time, 5 minute taxi, full throttle loose formation take off, then reduce rpm to 2500 at 1000 agl, maintain full throttle and climb out at 115 KIAS. We then took notes on our engine parameters.
Airport KHAO(Cincinnati) elev. 650 msl , OAT 95 deg., F Density Alt. 3000 ft
Engine snap shots at 1000 ft msl (Jon only), 3000 ft, 6000 ft, 8500 ft at cruise speed, then 8500 ft and using the Dynon D180 lean mode lean until all cylinders are lean of peak. Cruise LOP numbers were attained at full throttle and 2400 rpm with the Dynon initially indicating 75 % pwr. By the time all cylinders were LOP, the MP and RPM remained the same but the % pwr had dropped to about 60 %.

Jon at 1000 msl
CHT 1 377 EGT 1 1249 fuel flow 16.4
2 364 2 1188
3 372 3 1319
4 396 4 1338

3000 ft MSL Jon
CHT 1 391 EGT 1208 OT 165 FF 14.9
2 372 1149
3 393 1325
4 417 1296
Scott
CHT 1 355 EGT 1105 OT 158 FF 16.4
2 357 1127
3 365 1167
4 378 1194

6000 ft MSL Jon
CHT 1 368 EGT 1150 OT 183 FF 14.3 % pwr 78
2 340 1108
3 380 1265
4 394 1232
Scott
CHT 1 318 EGT 1065 OT 176 FF 15.1
2 356 1162
3 352 1118
4 368 1165

8500 ft MSL Jon
CHT 1 353 EGT 1140 OT 186 FF 14.7 % pwr 76
2 315 1103
3 362 1182
4 364 1142
Scott
CHT 1 310 EGT 1088 OT 180 FF 14.5
2 367 1132
3 340 1073
4 357 1109

8500 ft MSL Cruise LOP Jon
CHT 1 347 EGT 1349/-23 OT 180 FF 7.6 OAT 59F IAS 142 TAS 169 %61
2 346 1373/-18
3 324 1359/-36
4 362 1396/-13 MP 22.1 RPM 2420
Scott
CHT 1 367 EGT 1336/-6 OT 180 FF 7.5 IAS 143 TAS 170 % pwr 60
2 344 1312/-55
3 344 1332/-36
4 370 1384/-7 MP 21.6 RPM 2400

We landed and were on the ground about an hour to allow the engine to heat soak. Then a formation start, taxi, takeoff and a low altitude(1500agl) cruise at 24 squared. Oil temps 15 minutes later were Jon 181 Scott 184.

Additional notes: Scott and I are baffled almost identically with the newest Van's baffle kits, with the standard front air dams, Engines identically built by JB engines of Sebring, FL. Differences are as follows: Jon 3878 carb., Scott has a 4164, Jon dual slick Mags., Scott 1 slick mag, 1 lightspeed elec. ignition, Jon SW 8406R oil cooler, Scott Van's Oil Cooler II, both baffle mounted. We both have Dynon D180's that read identical airspeeds, Alt, and temps when flying side by side. The Airseeds have been proven correct via the standard triangular GPS runs.
The egt probes are placed identically at 2 inches down from the bottom of the exhaust flange. Also standard Vetterman Exhausts. Cylinders are the ECI nickel carbide tapered barrels with 9 to 1 pistons.
Scott was slightly more maniacal about RTVing every cyl./baffle gap than me.

Note to Kevin Horton, after our LOP cruise run, we increased the mixtures and watched our Fuel flows, % pwr #'s, and TAS's increasing while both of us were on autopilot. we both set 9.0 gph and saw 180 KTAS and about 75 % pwr. This was intended as an oil cooler comparison flight/ carb jet comparison. Next up is to grab Kevins flight test cards for fuel flows and get some #'s for him.

I hope these #'s will be helpful to some, and you can draw your own conclusions.
Regards,
 
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According to these figures the Vans cooler gave consistently lower oil temperatures than the Stewart Warner 8406R.

Correct?

Doug
 
Yes, I confirm those numbers. It appears to me the SW's only advantage is quicker cool down of already elevated oil temps.
 
Jon,

This is a very interesting result indeed, certainly flies in the face of common belief.

Thanks for doing this trial and posting the results.

Doug
 
Hi Jon,

Interesting info.

Are both carbs stock?? Have either of you drilled your main jets. I ask this because I understand that the 3878 carb is a leaner carb than the 4164 and this shows in the fuel flow rates at wot up through 6k'. The 4164 was running 1 to 1+ gph more through 6k'. This may be a core reason for the cooler running in the climb?? It certainly contributed to the differential.

Again, thanks for sharing.

Cheers,

db
 
Hi Dave,
Yes the carbs are stock. We had agreed not to lean until after 5000 ft.
Scott can jump in here, but I believe he may have begun to lean a little after 5000 ft. People can draw there own conclusions, I'm happy with the 3878 carb. I use the elevator control as a surrogate "cowl flap", cht's above 415 in climb, lower the nose and climb faster!

One of these days Scott and I will find the program that lets you use the Dynon data logging. As it was, it was kinda hard to write all those numbers down while climbing at 1500 fpm. Or maybe we'll just record fuel flows all the way to 9000ft at 1000 ft intervals.

Regards,