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prkaye

Well Known Member
Hello all,

After a lot of research and deliberation, I've decided that an RV-9a is perfect for me. I'm going to start building very soon. I'm now trying to figure out the best way to acquire tools. I'll probably get a 20 or 25 gal Air Compressor from Home Depot. But the rest of the tools I guess should be aircraft quality.

At Avery tools they have these "RV Tool Kits". Convenient because everything is in one package, but it looks like a whop of cash you have to put up-front for it. Is this the way to go? What are the alternatives?

I live in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.

Thanks! Be prepared for lots of questions from me in the months and years ahead!

Phil
 
Question: How much money does it take to build an airplane?

Answer: All of it. You may as well get used to it. ;)

Most of the tool venders give a substantial discount on your starter tool kit purchase. They also allow you to add and subtract tools from the stock kit while keeping the discount. Go crazy and order all of the tools now when you can get the discount (use the search funtion on this forum for what is needed or just helpful. It has all been hashed out before). Yes it's going to hurt but the bulk order will save you a few hundred dollars.

A good rule of thumb, do not order tools, supplies piecemeal if at all possible. The shipping adds up quick and you loose the discounts. Good luck
 
Actually, buying piecemeal can work out ok. This is because many of the tool vendors do not charge shipping if you order over some minimum limit (like $100). You can buy the minumum to get started, and then add more tools a little at a time. Of course, it took several orders from a few different places before I had the minimum. In the end, you will still spend more than the $2000 that Van lists, so buying a few things at a time is just an illusion that you are not spending that much on tools.

Also, you might want to check out Ebay for some of your larger purchases, like a pnematic squeezer, although, I have seen people pay $50 for a $25 tool on Ebay, so beware.

Tracy.
 
Phil- Thats a good place to start. I actually got a smaller kit from them long ago. You will need additional things like a Pneumatic squeezer and a longeron yoke and other things depending on your building style. But for the most part thats a good kit. You can't beat the quality of the tools from Avery. IMO Like Tracy said watch Ebay for things "you wish you had" and you can get good deals if you're careful.

-Jeff
 
prkaye said:
Thanks guys... so bottom line... is Avery Tools "Bare bones RV kit with 3x rivet gun" a good way to start (adding stuff later if/when needed)?

http://www.averytools.com/pc-691-68-bare-bones-rv-tool-kit-3x-gun.aspx

They're asking $1671 for it. Is this a reasonable deal?
Click to expand...
Avery has good tools and reasonable prices. However, they are not the only tool company out there that can provide your needs. Just doing a search on GOOGLE for "aircraft tools" I came up with at least a dozen quality companies. My plug is for
Brown Tools. I have no affiliation with them but I have bought all of my tools from them. Of course one very good reason why I have done so is the fact that they are about 2 miles away from where I work so I do not have to bother with shipping issues. That aside however, they are very reasonably priced and have everything you would ever need. One caveat I find interesting is the fact that they supply some of the tools that Avery sells. I also noticed that they have an advertisement here on the vansairforce.net website. In fact, I am looking at their add just to the left of this post as I type.
 
Two More Choices

Clear Air Tools
Cleaveland Tools

I went with the Cleaveland kit when I purchased mine, but there have been a surprising number of changes in the available kits since then. I've also bought stuff from Avery since, and they are both good. I compared kits part by part so I could compare prices fairly since they all sell a different set of tools.
 
Tools in ottawa

Hi Phil... just got my RV8 tail last week. I'm in Orleans, the tools kit I purchased was from Planetools.com... and it was awesome, nice price, great stuff.

Whereever you buy, let me know, you can have it shipped to the Ogdensburg and go pick it up... alot easier than shipping to Ottawa.

Mike
 
Hi Phil,
Congrats on the decision. I too am building a 9A and am just starting to see completion on the horizon.

I wrote a few thoughts on tools at : http://eastham-lee.com/rv/newbie.html

I'm a pretty big Avery fan, and would recommend like a few of the others to do a thorough job on the first order. They will apply a not-insignificant discount to everything you order along with the starter kit (I forget how much), and shipping is free too.

Good luck!
Paul
 
I have bought from Avery, Brown, Cleaveland and ClearAir as well as Ebay. On Ebay, you need to check out the seller & watch the tool descriptions, know what your are buying. Toolsez seems to have a good reputation & they sell "kits", so a drill may come with a couple dozen bits.

I have had good experience with the regular suppliers listed above. Go to Cleaveland for their "Main Squeeze" if you don't buy a pneumatic. Buy the adjustable set holder if you do go pneumatic.

Chicago Pneumatic and Ingersoll Rand make good rivet guns. My very experienced IA who does museum quality work (he now works at a museum, actually), says they are the best and that CP is the better of the two. Go for a 3X. I got my IR gun off Ebay for $35, but they seem to go for a lot more, now.

The little 3,600 rpm Sioux drill is very well thought of, but there are other good drills out there. On Ebay you will find small Dotco and Rockwell drills. Small size and rpm's greater than 2,500 are good criteria. The little Chicago Pneumatic has bushings, not bearings. May last till your plane is built, but if it doesn't, it is cheap enough you can buy another and still be money ahead over the Sioux. Brown has the best prices for the Sioux. I think IR also makes a small drill now.

Also, Brown has sales. Watch them. I bought a lot of clecoes from them for less than $.30 each when I started. BTW, so far, I have needed a lot more 3/32" clecoes than 1/8".

Clear Air has the best prices on squeezer yokes and pneumatic squeezers, although Brown met their price on a sale. Fred at Clear Air persuaded me to go with reamers rather than using drill bits for match drilling and I am glad I did. The holes come out exactly round every time. Also, I have match drilled everything up through the wings, not including the flaps and ailerons, and my first 3/32" reamer probably needs replacement. I can feel it enlarging the hole when I run the reamer farther in than I normally do, suggesting the first half inch has worn somewhat. Unless I break one, I probably won't use more than 2 or 3 reamers for the whole plane, so the cost is minimal.

Also look at "The Yard", (yardstore.com) for bucking bars--best selection and used to have the best prices. Avery's selection has improved. I have never found a use for their #620 however, even though it looks like it ought to be very versatile. The heavier, the better when it comes to bucking bars.

I was surprised to find Aircraft Spruce had the best price on the Rolo-flair flaring tool. $78 including shipping, $89 at Avery and around $95 at some places.

Lastly, as I peruse the package deals that each of them offer, I find that none of them offer the best of everything. For example, the best hand squeezer is the Cleaveland Main Squeeze, but some of Avery's other tools are better.
 
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>> you can have it shipped to the Ogdensburg and go pick it up...

where is that? Why is it easier than shipping to Ottawa?
 
Shipping to Ogdensburg

Ogdesburg is at the end of the 416 about 1 hour south of Ottawa. Easier and cheaper... as this is a first for you, you need to know that having anything shipped via UPS to anywhere north of the border is very expensive,, they and others charge crazy broker fees.

So, what alot of us do is have stuff shipped to Odgensburg, and then we go and pick stuff up. You declare at the border (or not, if you're into that) pay the taxes, no duty because its airplane stuff, and drive home.

Mike
 
thanks!

That sounds like a great tip... thanks! Do you just ship to the UPS depot in Ogdensburg, and have them hold it there for you??

How big is the empannage kit? Will it fit in the backseat of my nissan Sentra, or should i rent a truck (is it still cheaper than shipping to Ottawa when you factor renting a truck and gas?)

I looked at planetools.com. Their economical RV kit looks cheaper than Avery tools... you've been happy with their stuff? Tools as good as Avery?
 
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For the tail kit,, go with Vans,, fedex charged me 62.00 to bring it to the door.. it was worth it. Other stuff such as tools etc... the UPS depot in odgensburg is the way to go.

Planetools was awesome, great tools and the customer service is bar none... dimple dies on back order he sent me a complete "dimple die kit", when I found there was no back rivet plate in the kit (theres one in the picture) he sent me one right away no charge.

very happy

M
 
When starting my project I hadn't used quality tools at all -- I've always picked the cheapest tools I've been able to get. However already when budgeting my plane it was for sure, that this plane would be done with true tools so if I would screw up something, I'd not be able to blame the tools. I took Avery's RV builders tool kit and there is absolutely nothing to complain.

And you can always look for cheapest, but eventually you have to make decision between quality and money. However I bet that working with good tools will make the building pleasure (and more comfort) rather than screwing things with cheap tools -- especially if you have to re-order some parts from Van's then cheap tool may become pricy. In case of some tools, the quality is not issue though.

And less tools you'll get, the harder the job gets and you'll consume more time for you project. For example all the basic kits has standard yoke -- I did ordered also 4" thin nose yoke and longeron yokes, for make my job easier. They cost a lot (it's just piece of metal :rolleyes: ), but I quess that compared to whole projects price the incerease was small and I can keep building rather than trying to figure our how to squeeze places where those yokes fit. Actually my tool order was about $500 bigger after I had added just few comfort tools to standard package and I even didn't pick up pneumatic squeezer (I did realized it's value when squeezing my first AD4s).

And eventually you'll need those tools so why not get them right away. If money is an issue now I wonder why it wouldn't be later -- unless you are going to rob the bank. ;)

PS. Actually hex key for drill stops seemed to be too small and tried similar size metric version which was perfect match...
 
RV Tools...

Phil,

We started building an RV-7A a few months back and we attended the Alexander Technical Center at the airport in Griffin, GA for the construction of our empennage kit... a move that we still appreciate and would recommend heartily for those just starting out! Further, we had the opportunity to use a wide range of tools made by different manufacturers and sold through different representatives. We chose Isham Tools for their RV tool kit and have been pleased with the quality and responsiveness of Shaun Isham to our needs.
As one good source... I'm pleased to recommend Shaun. He can be reached at [email protected].

Good luck on the RV-9A.

Tom



prkaye said:
Hello all,

After a lot of research and deliberation, I've decided that an RV-9a is perfect for me. I'm going to start building very soon. I'm now trying to figure out the best way to acquire tools. I'll probably get a 20 or 25 gal Air Compressor from Home Depot. But the rest of the tools I guess should be aircraft quality.

At Avery tools they have these "RV Tool Kits". Convenient because everything is in one package, but it looks like a whop of cash you have to put up-front for it. Is this the way to go? What are the alternatives?

I live in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.

Thanks! Be prepared for lots of questions from me in the months and years ahead!

Phil
Click to expand...
 
A few years ago when I was buying power tools to build a shop , I asked around about who makes the best tools. I asked the older fellas at Home Depot, the guys at the big tool stores and contractor friends. Not one of them said a single tool maker makes the best tools, but rather it totally depends on which tool your interested in and then they could tell me who makes it best. For instance, at the time (I'm sure do to manufacturer one-up-manship it has changed) according to those I talked to Milwaukie made the best Sawzall Recipro saw, Dewalt made the best hand drill, Porter Cable made the best Circular saw, Bosch made the best Jigsaw and Makita made the best 10" Compound Miter saw. So I ended up with not one 'best' tool manufacturer but instead the best manufacturer for that particular tool. I felt I ended up with the best tool selection I could afford at the time and I haven't regretted it. I could be wrong but I imagine it's the same with the various aircraft tools.

Also, as has been mentioned, if your serious about the quality of the work you want to do, dont go cheap! Buy the best tools that you can afford. There is a huge difference between work done with 'OK' tools (or an incorrect tool for the task at hand) and the job done using very good tools. Not only is it easier for you to do the work but it will show in the craftsmanship of your finished project, seriously.

Another thing, dont let someone borrow your very good quality expensive tool unless you know 'for sure' they will treat it as you do. All it takes is once to see someone else non-chalantly chuck your once accurate cutting tool onto a workbench or return your favorite prized tool scuffed up and seemingly not working like it used to and you'll never lend out another tool again.
 
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Also Phil, if by chance your planning to go to Oshkosh this year, wait till then before buying tools. AirVenture has every tool manufacturer on hand and nearly every one of them offer some type of special on their tools and tool (RV) packages. Not to mention the many new and used tools that can be had at the Flymart there.
 
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