[Top_prop]

Ok,
I drove a couple bad rivets... drilled them out and the next two I drove were worse... then I got a figure 8 and a big hole now...

you can see more at my build log:
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=tomhoodjr&project=625&category=0&log=68364&row=1

I did a search here and found this thread:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=30140&highlight=bad+rivet

I've ordered some AD5 rivets from spruce, so I could just drill them to take the AD5 rivets... but I'm thinking about just drilling a couple new #30's two rivet diameters out from the existing mess and putting a third equadistant between the two mishapen holes.

If I do latter should I try and fill the mishappen holes or just let them sit?

Any advice is appreciated.

Tom

 

[alpinelakespilot2000]

I've ordered some AD5 rivets from spruce, so I could just drill them to take the AD5 rivets... but I'm thinking about just drilling a couple new #30's two rivet diameters out from the existing mess and putting a third equadistant between the two mishapen holes.

If you do this, be aware that there are basic rules about minimum rivet pitch (distance between rivets) that generally need to be followed. In general, you need 3x rivet diameter between rivets. This means you'd need 3/8" for the #30 rivets. Cleaveland has a great pull-out chart in their catalog that provides important fastener specs.

Also, bent over rivets are most often the result of too long of a rivet. Save yourself a lot of grief now and buy a $15.00 rivet cutter. That way you can cut down those called out in Van's drawings that are a little too big. I waited until after I started my fuselage before I did this. Wish I had known to do this sooner--it would have save me many a headache.

Also, be aware that -5's will be tougher to set than the -4s.

I'd recommend you check with Van's regarding your options.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

 

[Sam Buchanan]

We've all been there...done that......

Ok,
I drove a couple bad rivets... drilled them out and the next two I drove were worse... then I got a figure 8 and a big hole now...

It happens.

I've ordered some AD5 rivets from spruce, so I could just drill them to take the AD5 rivets... but I'm thinking about just drilling a couple new #30's two rivet diameters out from the existing mess and putting a third equadistant between the two mishapen holes.

If I do latter should I try and fill the mishappen holes or just let them sit?

Any advice is appreciated.

Tom

Adding 2-3 new holes and rivets would be a very satisfactory solution, just comply with the standard edge distance rules. No need to fill the old holes...they just add character.

Build on!

 

[Top_prop]

I'm sure you realize I left out all the cussing and knashing of teeth that was happening with the bad rivets and then worse...

I like to be good at what I do... building is teaching me more about myself than about building...

So it sounds like I was on the right track for the repair... though I guess its 3 rivet diameters not two....

Thanks,

Tom

 

[Auburntsts]

Also, be aware that -5's will be tougher to set than the -4s

If you decide to go the -5 route, make sure your gun is up to it. If you are using a 2X gun, you may run into serious problems trying to get the rivets to set. You'll most likely need to borrow someone's 3X to get the job done properly.

 

[az_gila]

Note that the 3 rivet diameters...

I'm sure you realize I left out all the cussing and knashing of teeth that was happening with the bad rivets and then worse...

.....

So it sounds like I was on the right track for the repair... though I guess its 3 rivet diameters not two....

Thanks,

Tom

...is a hole edge to hole edge distance.

The specifications would call it 0.500 inch minimum rivet spacing and measure it from hole center to hole center. It's also a greater dimension for flat head rivets.

More details here....

http://www.rvproject.com/MIL-R-47196A_MI.pdf

 

[mcencula]

Rivet drilling how-to

Tom,

On the outside chance you need to drill out any more rivets prior to completing your airplane, here's a decent rivet drilling how-to (IMHO).

 

[Bob Axsom]

Formal training is recommended

Riveting is not hard but there are some basic techniques that are better taught in a hands-on environment than trying to acquire as you build your airplane. You are obviously very conscientious but is difficult to do a good job without training. You will not feel the anxiety after you get a little experience and approach each task carefully with a concept of what the risks are and how to deal with discrepancies.

Bob Axsom

 

[Jamie Aust]

Tungsten

I have found that a Tungsten Bar is a great help ! I didnt get one until late into my wings, I wish I had one from the start. The best $100 tool I have spent so far. PM me or do a search for Tungsten if you need contacted info. Looking good so far.

 

[Transporter]

Riveting Practice

I attended one of the sheetmetal workshops at Oshkosh and the instructor's closing advice helped a lot:

"Buy some cheap aluminum or beg some scrap from another builder.
Lay out some rivet lines with appropriate edge distance, etc. and start pounding and squeezing rivets. Drive about 200 rivets and repair all the bad ones. Once you do that you'll be comfortable with your tools and your technique. Now you're ready to tackle your project." I made a lot of mistakes on the scrap, got better and then tackled both of Van's practice kits. When the kit arrived I was ready to open the boxes and get to work.

I'll also second Jamie's comment about tungsten bucking bars: I own two (Avery's 6001 and 6004). The 6004 now handles 90% of my riveting and the 6001 handles the other 10%. The iron bucking bars are collecting dust in my toolbox. Way more control with the tungsten steel bars and they can fit in really tight spaces.

Good luck,
Mike

 

[Top_prop]

Thanks for all the feed back. I hope this will help others who make a mistake similar to mine.

I took sams advice and added three new rivets... one equidistant and two three diameters (edge to edge) outboard of the orginal holes.

I also drove about 50 rivets in some scrap I got from the sheet metal/airframes shop on base... then I tried those three rivets and all went well.

Thanks again.

Tom

 

[Webb]

The enemy

Just remember that better is the enemy of good enough. If the rivet is sound, you can tolerate a bit of ugly.

Trying to make it better sometimes makes it worse.

 

[Top_prop]

man more Ooops's!!!

I was deburring my VS mainspar in prep for alumapreping, alodining, and priming... I found a hole I forgot to Countersink... so I hit it and the CS wandered because the spar is thin stock... the directions state to have the doubler back there ... know I know why!... its to give thick stock for the pilot of the CS to run in!

Anyways added another couple of extra rivets and moved on...

See more here if you are a noob and interested, or a tech counsler and want to keep me from making a big mistake (pretty confident this is a ok fix... the sheet metal guys on base helped me layout a similiar on on the lower ribe where I mis punched the VS skin... )

http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=tomhoodjr&project=625&category=0&log=68944&row=1

Tom

 

[Danny7]

I was deburring my VS mainspar in prep for alumapreping, alodining, and priming... I found a hole I forgot to Countersink... so I hit it and the CS wandered because the spar is thin stock... the directions state to have the doubler back there ... know I know why!... its to give thick stock for the pilot of the CS to run in!

Tom

i have no experience with the rv 10, so i don't know what part you are talking about. But if a part is to thin to guide a countersink, it should probably be dimpled, not machine countersunk.

what is the thickness of the material you are c/s?

 

[Top_prop]

Danny,

I'm referring to the main spar of the VS. You can check my build log online for more specifics...

The instructions say to CS where the doubler backs it up and to dimple where it does not... what got me in trouble is I missed a spot due to a cleco being in that hole and counter sunk without the doubler behind... their was no metal for the pilot of the counter sink to engage so just a small bit of side presure made a figure 8. The bottom of the counter sunk hole in the spar meets perfectly with the bottom of the spars' material so I'd suspect its .040.... doesn't matter to me, the instructions are clear and the CS doesn't make it to the material below.. but the doubler is required for the pilot!

No worries, I put a new rivet on the left and the right of the messed up hole and I'm moving on.

I'm curious how the rivet will form seeing it will sit in the skin, have about 1/4 of a CS hole under the skin missing, then the shop head will form against the back of the good doubler hole...