n41va

Member
I am considering buying an RV-6A that was posted on this site and Barnstormers. Before I buy, I had to ask you guys. Here are the details:
RV-6A Tip up
Unpainted/ NO Upholstry
IO 360, 210 horse
Basic Panel
9 HRS Total on rebult continintal engine
No lights
Not "perfect" workmanship, but about an 8 out of 10
Wood Prop
Owned by an A&P

Whats it worth? What should I pay? What should I look for in paticular? I have just under 100 hrs total time under my belt, 23 years old, any advice? I just wanted some advice!? Thanks
 
Does the aircraft have 9 hours on it or just the engine? If the engine was rebuilt, why?

No lights, no paint, no interior, basic panel, and "not perfect" workmanship, I'd say low $50's if not high $40's.

For reference I sold my -6A with nice interior, lights, decent panel, unpainted for $60k. Not perfect workmanship or finished either.
 
It's odd, the whole engine thing. Not really the normal choice for a two seat RV. Get someone who knows RV's to do a through pre-buy. If the W&B isn't too screwed up by the HEAVY engine, and the installation is done well (custom engine mount... fuel flow requirements, TONs of interesting things could be done very well, or very wrong with this installation) it might be a good airplane.

Good pre-buy. thats my last words.
 
Yeah, now that you mention it, 210 HP Continental and wood prop? So the restrictions aren't even flown off yet? Sounds strange to me. Most people I've seen will at least get phase 1 signed off before they sell.
 
Here's some advice- run, don't walk away.

The Cont IO-360 is an awfully heavy engine for a 6. Van's 2nd -10 uses this engine, but I've never heard of another RV with it. Unless you want to have a low flying/wrenching ratio, stay far away.

Whatever happened to your plans to build?
 
Overpowered & untested.

You are a low time pilot and this is a non standard RV configuration with only 9 hours. You will have to complete the test flying. What is the owner/builders reason for selling, if not medical maybe he has scared himself.

My advice is to steer clear and buy a lower powered proven aircraft.
 
I did a survey of what RVs were selling for in the RV Builder's Hotline a few weeks ago. Not scientific, but the prices various models were fetching were -- imho -- remarkably consistent. You can generally ballpark what this plane would be worth based on what the average model/selling price is minus the obvious "options" that aren't on this plane.

So.... what's the *asking* price on this one?
 
I was planning on building then I came across this deal. He is selling it because of medical reasons. He has a very good reputation at my local airport. I have asked the other RVers on the airport and EAA chapter and they give it a thumbs up. The asking price is $51,000obo
 
Look & Listen

n41va said:
I am considering buying an RV-6A.....What should I look for in paticular?....
Engine considerations and firewall forward details aside, I'd insist upon the following two airframe issues as possible deal breakers:

Remove the wing root fairings and closely examine the 5/16" rear spar attach bolt holes for adequate e.d.

Are the fuel tanks leak free? Any history of leaks? Where they built with slosh (a no-no) or no slosh?

Not necessarily deal breakers but issues that should be examined closely:

Examine the forward wing brackets attaching the fuel tanks to the fuselage and insure they have the safety slots cut into them in case of an incident.

Has the recent fuel tank S.B. been complied with?

Fully examine the flight control system including the push/pull tubes and bellcranks attachments for integrity. Determine if the tubes have been internally treated for corrosion and the end caps totally secure. Some builders weld and others pop rivet the ends into place. Both methods are acceptable....but check the overall quality of workmanship.

Almost always arguable....is internal priming important to you? If so, was this airplane primed....and before or after the parts were assembled?

Slowbuild or quickbuild kit? A certain and modest level of built-in quality is virtually guaranteed with many crucial parts of a quickbuild...not necessarily so with a slowbuild kit. But then again, a lovingly built slowbuild can quite easily surpass the overall quality of a given quickbuild.

Know the builder. Try to determine his overall attitude towards workmanship. Does he perceive issues related to workmanship as good or "good enough?" Personally, I'd inquire if he reamed all the bolts holes or simply drilled them full size. I know this issue raises some peoples hackles, but I could care less. If it were my wallet about to be opened, I'd be fairly persnickety when it comes to a stranger's attitude about precision. The fact that you say the plane is owned (original builder?) by an A&P is encouraging. Still, that fact alone is no silver bullet, I know plenty of sloppy A&P's

If possible, arrange a flight test with someone familiar with an RV's handling qualities. Does the airplane trim out well throughout its range of speeds? Stalls can quickly determine if a wing was assembled with an undesirable built in twist or is rigged poorly. Some RV's have a tendency to dutch roll like a V-tail Bonanza...does this one?

These are just the issues that came to my mind immediately. But certainly others with far more knowledge and RV experience than I can add to the list of things to look for when purchasing someone else's RV.

Finally, no airplane is perfect. In the end, it is your responsibility to determine if the flaws inherent in any airplane are merely cosmetic or potentially life threatening. Since you will not be allowed to sign off the annual condition inspection, its associated costs and labor will be required just as if you were buying any certificated airplane. As in any major purchase, proceed with all due diligence to avoid costly and nasty surprises later.

Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"
 
How about resale?

One thing not yet mentioned is resale value. You're only 23; you'll want another airplane someday. Even if you can get this airplane cheap--or relatively so--its value will always remain depressed because of the unusual engine/prop combo. You don't want to be "stuck" with it.

I'd also be very suspicious of the low TT. My bet is this airplane did something nasty and no one really wants to fly it. (This is based on NO evidence at all; just a gut feeling.)

--Marc
 
After reading the post, I spent about an hour on Barnstormers...there are ALOT of good RV's on there to choose from. It appears to be a buyer's market right now. I'd say pass on it and look at something with a couple hundred hours on it.
 
engine weight

I don't know how much the continental weighs. I have a 6 with the Lycomoming 160 hp O 360 and the fixed pitch metal sensinich prop. Empty weight is 1068 lbs. My plane could definitely use more weight on the nose. Very easy to be at the rear of the cg envelope with 2 adults and 50 lbs of payload in the rear. We flew to NM last year from Michigan and had to stop every 2 to 2 1/2 hrs for fuel to keep the cg manageable. I was wishing I had a constant speed prop hanging on the front for that trip. For one up flying, or two up with minimal to no baggage, mine is a pleasure and handles great. With the particular plane you are considering, the nosegear may help some. Find out the empty weight and look at the weight and balance and do some realistic calculating to see how much you can haul and stay in the envelope.

Goodluck,
 
The thread is drifting a bit, so...

Jim, what's up with the rear CG in your airplane? Is there a lot of paint on the tail? Did someone install strobes, the battery, or the ELT in an aft location? My -6 has a wood prop and a VFR panel and I can carry 350 lbs of people and about 70 pounds of bags to the zero fuel point in my airplane and stay in CG.

Beyond that, I'll put some items in a soft bag that can be relocated from the baggage compartment to under the passenger's feet if we're getting towards the back of the CG envelope at the end of a flight.
 
cg

Kyle,

I don't think there is any extra weight in the back, the battery is in the standard just aft of the firewall position, strobes in the wing tip, elt immediately behind the passenger seat. When we went on the trip we weighed ourselves (180 and 140 lbs) and the stuff in the baggage area weighed in at 70 lbs. We were just a tad overgross, with full fuel, but considering how the plane had handled I didn't feel this would be a problem. I did not actually do the W&B calcs, which I should have, and will in the future when doing the long XC.

First attempt at landing was 2 hrs into the trip and I ended up doing two go arounds because of pitch instability. This was the first time I had flown in a rear cg situation and I was not happy with the way it handled. Very pitch sensitive compared to normal. At that time I had ~850 hrs flying time with ~650 in TD planes, PA-18, Cessna 180, RV-6.....so, I didn't really think I was screwing up. The next leg I did 1 go around on the next landing, same issues. The field we were at for that landing had a couple RVs and I was talking to some of the guys and they had indicated that they had seen this before in the 6 with O 320 + FP prop, too light on the nose when fully loaded. One guy had switched to a constant speed prop and problem solved. We ended up moving all the tools to the front of the plane (just aft of battery), which improved the handling some. When we got to NM we sifted through all the baggage and shipped about 30 lbs of not so necessary stuff home (lawnchairs, extra clothes, wifes shoes !!, etc.) and the rest of the trip was normal handling.

I don't know if it is a common problem, but I am much more careful with loading in view of how it handled. I bought the plane so I don't know how accurate the weighing of the plane was when built, but the guy that built it did a good job (certainly NOT show quality, but not poorly built). I may, if I ever can find some scales, re do the W&B to see if it agrees with what it was when registered.

Any thoughts?
 
Since we're wandering off topic anyway...

jim said:
Any thoughts?
I have a similar setup, -6, light prop, aft CG. The Mark Landoll CG balancer made a difference. It is a 12 lb steel ring that bolts to the flywheel. I calculated that it moved the CG forward about 3/4 inch, which is just enough to help.
 
Jim,

My airplane's ELT is located in the floor just behind the battery and the strobe power pack is under the panel. I don't think that makes a big difference, but every bit counts.

No doubt the airplane's handling changes when the CG is at the aft end of the range. It is very noticable whenever I go on a trip carrying a full load of baggage after a few months of only flying solo or with a passenger.
 
handling

Kyle,

Since that was my first encounter with aft cg flight handling maybe it was just normal flight characteristics. It was an eye opener for me, I didn't really like the feel of it, but found myself increasing my concentration and thinking through the situation. However, I don't think I would have wanted to explore stall characteristics in that situation, especially in the pattern. I was glad to have the AOA on board at that time, I love that thing and won't have a plane without one again. With future full load situations I'll do the W&B calcs and try to keep things more forward in the cg envelope. Now, when I get the 8 done its going to be the opposite problem, still debating which engine for that one. I'll probably have to have lead shot in the passenger seat as 90% of my flying is solo.

Thanks,
 
Landoll

Hi Jeff,

I've heard of the Landoll ring, but as far as I know it is for wood props only? I don't know if it could be adapted to the metal sensinich.

I checked out your web site, nice plenum! Are you satisfied with it?

Thanks for the input,
 
The Landoll ring mounts to the flywheel, not the prop. You can use it with any prop.
 
-6 with constant speed prop

On my -6 (with constant speed prop and IO-320) rear cg is never a problem. Could Fly with 5 gallons of gas, two 190 pound people and 100 pound of baggage and still not be past the rear cg.

Just checked it with the free w&b program you can download from Van's website. (It's made for a -8, but easy to use with any model. Just enter the arm measurment for the front and rear passenger as the same number. No forward baggage of course.)

1613 gross with an arm of 76.72
 
jim said:
but as far as I know it is for wood props only?
As Mel said, it bolt's to the flywheel and could be used with any prop. However, with a metal prop (especially a C/S) you probably wouldn't need one.

I am happy with the plenum and it cools very well. So well in fact that I had to design a winterization kit for it. I've got some pics and updates and someday I'll get around to posting them.
 
Landoll

Mel and Jeff,

Thanks for the correction about the Landoll ring. Other than the advantages of mass for wood props, and the obvious additional weight up front for my setup, are there any other advantages for use with the fp metal sensinich prop? Are there any drawbacks or downsides to using the ring, does it affect cowling or spinner fit? Does it limit aerobatics at all?

Thanks in advance,
 
The ring mounts to the aft side of the flywheel so it does not affect the cowl fit. As for aerobatics, I've never seen anything written that would restrict the G load of a Landoll ring-equipped engine. A wood prop with ring vs. a metal prop is probably a wash weight wise. Of course, I rarely get above 3Gs anyway, and I suspect most of us don't either, so it's a non-issue.