C

Calvin25

Well Known Member
New guy introduction with a couple questions

Hello everyone, This will be my first post of many I hope. After considering it for a few
years I have decided the time is right to start the build of my plane. I ordered the info/dvd yesterday, I planed to order the empennage; but couldn?t hit the button because I was not
100% sure that was the kit I wanted.

The question is which RV to build???

Heart and soul wants a RV8 fast back
The loner in me wants a RV3
The lover in me wants a RV7a
My brain wants a RV8a

So far, heart and soul is winning the fight in my head.


(RV8 fastback) This is what makes my heart pump.

(RV3) Keep it simple and fun, but no friends or XC?

(RV7a) Give Girlfriend a magazine and put on a hat so she doesn?t have to look at my balding head. (back to tandems)

(RV8a) I asked a life long friend that got me into aviation long ago, advice on this choice.
He recommended I build an ?a? due to it being more manageable on adverse condition landings.


I have no tail dragger experience at all. I learned to fly in a C206 Station Air and my experience is very low at this time. I have about 100 hours on that plane. The plane
was sold about 3 years ago and I have not flown since then. I want to get back into it.

So I?m very green, but the way I see it is that I will have time to get up to date before this long term project is ready to fly.

I?m looking for something I can have more ?fun? in then the Station Air. More sport, less utility. I would like to do mild aerobatics and some XC.

90% of my flying will be just playing around the clouds and mountains, alone.

10% XC and friends.

So what do you think??
 
Sounds like an 8 or 8a to me

Wear a cap for your girlfriend, go by yourself if you choose.

8 or 8a.??....may be a tougher choice but at least you cannot go wrong.

For sure the 8a will be easier to get ahold of. The 8 is docile enough with decent training.....
 
8?

Calvin25 said:
I?m looking for something I can have more ?fun? in then the Station Air. More sport, less utility. I would like to do mild aerobatics and some XC.

90% of my flying will be just playing around the clouds and mountains, alone.

10% XC and friends.

So what do you think??
Click to expand...

I think that you have already answered your own question.
I have an RV-6a and wanted to go with the RV-8 or 8a. My wife wanted the side by side and I love her a lot. She also was very supportive in the entire venture.
That being said I can also say that I am with her about 10% of my flying time and still look at the 8's with some longing. I really like the idea of flying on the centerline and being able to have equal views out each side. So the 8 or 8a would still be my choice. It also has more elbow room for each occupant.
You will need to decide on nose vs tail wheel. The conventional gear (tail draggers) are pretty easy to land and do look sleeker. Still you don't suffer any big performance penalty with one over the other. Insurance will be higher at first with the "a" because of your low tail dragger time. You may want to check on that to see if it is a factor of any concern (probably not with a check out).
Good luck!
 
Choices

Practical considerations aside, what's going to keep you motivated every day during the build?

In other words, what do you want to look at when you open the door and roll up your sleeves?


Mike
 
gvgoff99 said:
I have an RV-6a and wanted to go with the RV-8 or 8a. My wife wanted the side by side and I love her a lot. She also was very supportive in the entire venture.
That being said I can also say that I am with her about 10% of my flying time and still look at the 8's with some longing.
Click to expand...

The P-51D Mustang is my favorite aircraft of all time, and the same for my wife. We both love the Reno air races! And obviously, the "8" comes the closest to being a mini P-51 with the proper paint scheme.

However, my wife also fly's about 90% of my flight time. It's always been that way. And because of that, I much prefer the side by side. We did years on a motorcycle, and I'm not particularly fond of having someone sitting behind.

L.Adamson --- RV6A -- painted like a P-51 anyway:)
 
Congrats

Congrats on your decision to build. You won't be disappointed. Just my opinion but you can't go wrong with a 7(a). You will have more baggage room and the cozy feeling with the significant other next to you. Performance is just about a wash with the 8 with a slight edge.

Remember the tail group is the same for the 7 and 8, so you've got some time to decide. Don't worry about the tail time. I had none when I built mine. I've got 400 + hours of tail time now and don't think I could build nose wheeled RV. Well, maybe a 10.

Let me know if you want to go for a ride. I'm at Stellar Airpark and will be happy to give you a ride in my 7. Real email [email protected]
 
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kevinh said:
Are you sure that's true? I thought the horizontal stab was different. I could be wrong though.
Click to expand...

I just finished my -7 tail. They are the same kit, but if you're building a -7, you have to trim some of the flange off of the HS-702 foward spar. If you're building the -8, then you leave the flange there.

Brad
 
Welcome to VAF!!!!

Hey Calvin, welcome to the Force.

You have defiantly come to the right place.

Good advice in the above posts, I would take Darwin up on his offer if I were you.:D
 
Back to the topic, I'll put my two cents in. I chose the -7 so that someday when I teach my kids to fly, I can look into their faces and see if they really understand what it is that I'm teaching them. My wife(the Boss) also flies with me regularly and prefers the side-by-side seats, and if I built the -8 I wouldn't get to make the tip-up vs. slider decision!:confused:
 
Scratch the 3

Calvin,

The only bad choice, in my opinion, would be the RV-3. Why limit yourself to a single seater? You can still fly solo in a 7/8(A) when you feel like being a loner. You can't choose to take a passenger in a 3 when you don't feel like being a loner. Also, the 7 and 8 kits are more modern than the 3 kit and should be easier to build. With the 3 you don't get the benefits of pre-punched holes.

Between the side-by-side (7) and tandem cockpit (8), and between tri-gear (A) or tail wheel (no-A), it sound like you know what the issues are. The performance is practically identical, plus/minus a couple of knots. There will be more performance variation from one builder to another (engine choice, empty weight, accurate rigging, smooth fitting skins...) than from one model to another. So performance isn't really a deciding factor between these choices. Flying characteristics are also practically identical. And with the newly revised pre-punched 8 kit, the kits should be about the same to build. The more practical choice is side-by-side and tri-gear for all the obvious reasons, and the more inherently "cool" choice is tandem cockpit and tail wheel. But I think a side-by-side tri-gear (7A -- my choice) is still pretty darn cool, and a tandem tail dragger (8) is still reasonably practical. So you can't really go wrong with any of these. The choice comes down to who you are.

And yes, take Darwin up on his offer! :cool:
 
I Know How You Feel

I was trying to make the same decision less than a year ago. That RV-8 sure looks good but I wanted the side-by-side option that the RV-7 has. Dream of having a grass strip one of these days so the conventional gear seemed like it was a better fit and it looks better to me (plus a little push from Brent Owens ;)). I chose the slider canopy because I live in the South and need lots of air in the summer until I'm ready to take the runway.

Nervously pulled the trigger in October and have really enjoyed building the empennage (although the LH elevator gave me a bit of frustration). The QB wings and fuselage are sitting in my cramped shop, awaiting my attention next.

Now here's a confession. I have over 8,000 hours and don't have my SEL. Started flying helicopters in the Army, got a fixed wing, multi engine transition and acquired all of 38 hours in a C-182 back in 1988 (that was the Army's definition of a fixed wing transition before graduating to a King Air/C-12 and OV-1 Mohawk). I'll wrangle a ride in a RV one of these days and find an instructor that will train me to fly a single engine, tail dragging airplane before I finish building my RV-7.

So ask questions, search your soul and follow your heart. Just don't get paralyzed with indecision for too long ;)
 
Definately and -8

Ok, since you asked; you can't go wrong with either a -7 or -8 (please no 'A' models). The clear choice is the RV-8, but I'm a little biased. ;)
Dave W. gives some good advice, don't let the choice get in the way of getting started, just decide and buy.


Good luck and enjoy the journey!
 
Calvin25 said:
but couldn?t hit the button because I was not
100% sure that was the kit I wanted.

The question is which RV to build???

Heart and soul wants a RV8 fast back
The loner in me wants a RV3
The lover in me wants a RV7a
My brain wants a RV8a

So far, heart and soul is winning the fight in my head.


(RV8 fastback) This is what makes my heart pump.
Click to expand...

Go with your heart!!!

That way you'll never have to say; "I wanted to build an X, but my friends thought I should build a Y".
 
new guy

well, I was a new guy last year, but of a different kind. No intention to build, no room or time, but wanted an RV. Lots of -6's around, but wanted the little extra room and resale of the later models. Would love to loop a -7, but thought the more docile approach speeds of the -9 would suit my low time, low skill level better, ( and insurance, type rating etc.)
I have to say, that you won't really know until you spend a dozen hours and a couple cross-country's in it, what you really like or don't like!
either find a friend that will take you on a few trips, so that you'll know that there just isn't enough room to re-fold a chart in and -8, or there' not enough panel space for your gadgets, or you really want to bring 2 folding bikes and a dog along.
or...you will just love the visibility out both sides, and the 'cockpit' feel of the -8, as well as the fighter look on the ramp. I spend at least twice as much time fixing and washing my plane as flying, so the look and feel should not be trivialized!
another good option is to buy one, fly it for a year, and then sell it, and build one with all the changes you'd want....a truly 'custom-built' for your tastes and needs!
 
Most guys who build a side-by-side model to keep their wife/girl friend happy find that said wife or girl friend hardly ever flies with them. Most flights are solo.

So, I think the only real question is RV-8 vs -8A. You need to get some tail dragger time before you can make that decision. Tail draggers are not difficult to fly, but you do need to continue to fly them during the landing roll, and you aren't done until the engine is stopped. Yes, it is possible to ground loop if you are careless, or unlucky. But, if you are careless or unlucky in a nose gear RV the nose gear has been known to collapse, causing significant damage, and usually ending in an inverted aircraft. So don't think that choosing the nose gear option somehow will allow you to have a lower skill level and yet avoid the risk of a landing accident.

These projects require a sustained effort to complete. You need to be motivated by your passion for the aircraft you are building. Build what you want, not what people tell you you should want, or what you think some hypothetical future buyer may want.
 
hard to decide

I choose an 8 because I think it's really cool, I love the canopy P51 style, taildragger was natural for me: I've got 800 hours most in taildragger (Super Cub or Extra300).

When we was without childs me and Katia did beautiful trips in tandems, we like it because side by side view.

Taildragger is 'conventional gear', no worry about. Do proper training and your flights will be longer (no relax until @ park with engine stopped).

Happy decision, let us know.

Ciao

ps: probably after my flight tests our childs will be a little bit autonomous

:cool:
 
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IFR?

Is an IFR ticket in your future?..If it is then a side by side model is easier to fly in the soup..You have more panel space and the seat next to you to place plates and charts..Gee you might even have GF there to hand you stuff in the right order.

She can also see you sweat too so there is a downside..:)

More baggage room in the side by sides too, although you do have that foward baggage compartment on the 8.

the 7 or 7a is a pretty decent aerobatic aircraft but the 8 will roll faster.

Frank..7a is my bias
 
You need to define your mission or flight profile(s).

In my case:

Flying IFR for real or practice, usually with a friend (almost always a pilot); trips within the SW US (CA, AZ, NV) mostly for extended weekends (in the past, might be longer with a faster, more capable plane); hard-surfaced runways.

Plan for: pretty nominal aerobatics (rolls, spins, maybe a loop or two) and not much of that, really (everybody says "I want inverted this or that", but I just don't see myself flying inverted much of anywhere :) ).

thus: -7 for copilot to work with side-by-side; -A for hard-surfaced runways (which should be the case for probably 95% of future flights, regardless).

Define the top-level mission requirements, then flow them down to an implementation.
 
Kevin Horton said:
Most guys who build a side-by-side model to keep their wife/girl friend happy find that said wife or girl friend hardly ever flies with them. Most flights are solo.
Click to expand...

Speak for yourself! :D

Every few weekends, about four or five airplanes head 150 miles to brunch. Nearly every plane always has two people aboard.

If I could ever stand to build a new airplane, it would probably be an "8" taildragger...............just because it's different. But I'm 99.99% sure I won't build again. At nearly 58, I just don't have the patience.

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
Wow, thanks for all the great input on this thread as well as e-mail.

And Darwin??. Lunch will be on me!!


I believe im going with a RV8 conventional model. As much as I would love to
have some one sitting right seat; I don?t think it will be very often at all.

My compromise is that ?IF? I need more room, I will rent a C182

My mode of flying will be 95% out playing around for a couple hours then return back to the hanger. The other 5% would be XC for over nights or lunch.

I would like to have a full IFR panel if it is possible in an 8.

I am packing for a move, as soon as I?m in the new house and my garage is right, I will have the kit on the way.

Thanks everyone for helping make this hard choice, you have a great community here.
 
Calvin25 said:
I believe im going with a RV8 conventional model. As much as I would love to
have some one sitting right seat; I don?t think it will be very often at all.

My compromise is that ?IF? I need more room, I will rent a C182

My mode of flying will be 95% out playing around for a couple hours then return back to the hanger. The other 5% would be XC for over nights or lunch.

I would like to have a full IFR panel if it is possible in an 8.

.
Click to expand...

In that case, keep the RV-8 very light with a simple VFR panel and rent the 182 for the less than 5% IFR flights. ;)
 
Ditto

Sam Buchanan said:
In that case, keep the RV-8 very light with a simple VFR panel and rent the 182 for the less than 5% IFR flights. ;)
Click to expand...

I swore that I wouldn't chime in here again, but I can't keep my mouth shut!!!

Sam Buchanan is right. You can build an 8 with the new EFIS/Autopilot/Glass Panel combo's into an 8 panel and fly all the IFR you want. However: if built simple and light for simple aerobatics and VFR cross country, you can have the best of both worlds by renting that 182 when necessary.

Then again; Paul Dye's (Ironflight) RV-8 is totally IFR equipped and his panel is the envy of most airline pilots.

BUILD WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE WHEN YOU OPEN THE HANGAR DOOR. Nuff said.
 
You can delay decision between an 8 and 8A awhile

Calvin25 said:
snipped
The question is which RV to build???

Heart and soul wants a RV8 fast back
The loner in me wants a RV3
The lover in me wants a RV7a
My brain wants a RV8a

So far, heart and soul is winning the fight in my head.


snipped
So what do you think??
Click to expand...

Calvin,
You can order the empennage for the 8 now. You can even order the wing kit for the 8 and still switch to an 8A later (if your brain overcomes your heart and soul) The empennage kits are identical for the 8 and 8A. The only difference on the wing kits has nothing to do with the wings. Vans sends the main spar center section of the fuselage WITH the wing kit. The only difference between an 8 wing kit and an 8A wing kit is 20 rivets in the wing spar center section (F-804), which is actually part of the fuselage.
The F-804 for the 8A comes with 20 less rivets installed, as the main landing gear weldments mount (with bolts) into those rivet holes. If you order an 8 wing kit and decide later to go 8A, you will have to drill out 20 rivets. If you order an 8A wing kit and decide that tail draggers are fun, you will have to install 20 rivets. The choice is yours.
Charlie Kuss

PS If you are tall, the 8A offers more leg room than the 8. FYI
 
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Start building an -8, and go get a tailwheel endorsement. By the time you have to choose between 8 and 8a, you'll know if you want the tailwheel. For myself, there was no choice, TW all the way.

BTW, the VS and Rudder on the -7 kit are from the -9, so the -8 and -7 EMP kits are NOT the same.
 
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CG

One thing not mentioned here is that on the side-by-sides is the fact that they are easier to keep in the CG envelope. When I did my weight and balance on my -7A the empty CG was just a touch (less than an inch) behind the forward limit. Add fuel, it moves it back, add people, it moves it back, add baggage it moves it back. With about 20 different scenarios I couldn't find a combination of added weight that put the CG out of limits at either end. Maybe if I put over 100 lbs (Vans spec) into the baggage compartment and had a 300 pound passenger (I go 170#) and ran it almost out of fuel I may break out of the envelope on the forward end. Haven't checked those extremes. I realize the -8(A) has two baggage compartments for doctoring up the specifics but it does require more planning. Like has been said before: What do YOU want to see when you open the hangar door?
 
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