IowaRV9Dreamer

IowaRV9Dreamer

Well Known Member
Yay! PS Engineering has introduced a new low cost audio panel just for experimental / light sport aircraft. It looks like it is a replacement for the Garmin GMA 240, and has their IntelliVox which the Garmin didn't. The link is here

I was planning on the GMA 240, but now I'll be going with the PMA 5000EX. I like the digital squelch, the entertainment inputs, and the adjustable muting on the aux inputs.

Way cool PS Engineering! It's great to see companies roll out new products for the Experimental market, especially during this economy.
 
IowaRV9Dreamer said:
Yay! PS Engineering has introduced a new low cost audio panel just for experimental / light sport aircraft. It looks like it is a replacement for the Garmin GMA 240, and has their IntelliVox which the Garmin didn't. The link is here

I was planning on the GMA 240, but now I'll be going with the PMA 5000EX. I like the digital squelch, the entertainment inputs, and the adjustable muting on the aux inputs.

Way cool PS Engineering! It's great to see companies roll out new products for the Experimental market, especially during this economy.
Click to expand...

Wow!

Thanks a bunch! A little while ago I started a thread about a Customized Auido Panel and it looks like this little jewel will fit my bill.

This news is a big help. :)
 
I am this close (holding 2 fingers pinched together) to placing my first real avionics order, which included the GMA-240. At $800, it's $200 less this new PSE box. ( I know hard to believe that Garmin is the lowest cost provider.)

I was wondering what are the must-have features in the new PSE that is not in the Garmin to justify the extra cost that will overcome the hissing noise i've heard about.

The only thing I know about PSE are the complaints about the hissing noise.
 
The auto squelch of the PSE units is cool. I really like my DRE intercom but I'll tell you...if I were building again I would be putting the PSE in for the auto squelch. In my opinion it's worth the 200 bucks difference. In fact...I'm seriously contemplating building up a new panel and that is the unit I'm looking at.

As for the hissing noise...I think people are complaining about the hiss while sitting on the ground. I have flown in countless RVs with PSE intercoms and the hissing is completely unnoticed in flight.
 
Is there actually a problem that this solves? I don't remember last time touching my intercom... and squelch in particular.. I set it.. and haven't had a need to change it in many, many hours (probably never?)... I understand the "coolness" of the feature, but I fail to hear/notice a problem in first place.
 
Radomir said:
Is there actually a problem that this solves? I don't remember last time touching my intercom... and squelch in particular.. I set it.. and haven't had a need to change it in many, many hours (probably never?)... I understand the "coolness" of the feature, but I fail to hear/notice a problem in first place.
Click to expand...

I'll have to agree - for $500 less, the Sigtronics 200S gave me everything I need.

But, that's the beauty of an open market - something for everyone!
 
Well yeah. I guess a sort of design flaw in my DRE intercom is that the knobs turn very easily. I also mounted it down low on the panel. I have now learned to never mount anything low that you don't want bumped, etc. Even if drag a headset cable across the knobs they will turn.

If you fly with other pilots that insist on bringing their own headset sometimes you will have to adjust the squelch to compensate for the different impedance of their mic.
 
Radomir said:
Is there actually a problem that this solves?
Click to expand...

It keeps you from having to fiddle with the individual squelch knobs, if you have individual squelch knobs.

But maybe you don't have individual squelch knobs for every seat. If you have a RV-10 and unmatched headsets at all 4 corners this could be a problem and the PSE intercoms are supposed to do quite well in that situation.

Speaking of individual knobs... the PMA 5000 doesn't have individual headset volume controls for pilot and copilot. The GMA 240 does. In my RV-6, that would be an advantage for the Garmin.

One feature I do like about the PSE: "A new 'Monitor' (Mon) mode has been added. When selected, the audio from the Com receiver that is not selected for transmit will automatically mute when the selected primary radio audio becomes active. In this way, the pilot may listen to AWOS on Com 2, but prevents the AWOS audio from interfering with the primary Com audio which is typically ATC." I wish my current audio panel had that...

--Paul
 
Garage Guy said:
One feature I do like about the PSE: "A new 'Monitor' (Mon) mode has been added. When selected, the audio from the Com receiver that is not selected for transmit will automatically mute when the selected primary radio audio becomes active. In this way, the pilot may listen to AWOS on Com 2, but prevents the AWOS audio from interfering with the primary Com audio which is typically ATC." I wish my current audio panel had that...
Click to expand...
I could see this getting quite confusing if you have a COM radio that also has a monitor feature built-in. How do you keep track of whether you're monitoring COM2, or monitor on COM1? I guess if you had COM1 selected on the PMA5000, the monitor frequency on COM1 would override COM2. Which may or may not be what you wanted...

For that matter, how does this panel work when you have a COM that has a built-in intercom? I just bought an ICOM A210 for the -6, and it has both monitor and intercom built-in (yes, i've seen the thread on the A210 and how the monitor feature works). I haven't looked at a wiring diagram yet.
 
Snowflake said:
I could see this getting quite confusing if you have a COM radio that also has a monitor feature built-in. How do you keep track of whether you're monitoring COM2, or monitor on COM1?
Click to expand...

The short answer for me is: I wouldn't use the standby freq monitor function on the radio. Like the PSE doc says, I like to use COM1 for ATC only, where the standby freq is the next handoff, or the previous one; and COM2 for picking up ATIS or AWOS. If you wanted to sometimes use standby monitoring on COM1... well, both your radio and the audio panel visually indicate if monitoring is on, so you could keep track that way.

For that matter, how does this panel work when you have a COM that has a built-in intercom?
Click to expand...

Same answer there! Don't use the radio's intercom. It's not as good as the audio panel's intercom anyway. Just connect the one main audio in and one audio out from the radio to the audio panel, and let the panel handle all the other routing.

--Paul
 
Something that I like about the PSE unit versus the Garmin unit, is that the PSE unit supports an External Speaker.

And in my RV, I want an External Speaker that way I can listen to the Satellite Radio and/or the Communications Radio while sitting on the ground with the engine turned off.

A small point, I know, but fortunately I have the ability to press it.
 
I've got the PSE PMA-9000 and can't be any happier. It has great capability. full high fidelity output and bluetooth cell phone. Intellivox, when properly connected, works great. Since they are a local company, I have been around their staff and find them very enthusiastic about aviation and their products. They are willing to go the extra mile to help you in your flying endeavours. I have no reservations about using their products. It's nice to see great companies out there competing with each other.
 
PMA5000EX

Brantel said:
So this is the secret project Mark was working on.....Way to go Mark!
Click to expand...

Thanks Brian!

I was hoping that you would have stopped by the factory sometime. I see that the white noise you were mentioning is giving some of our customers a concern about our products and that's a bummer.

Please stop by and bring your intercom, if your intercom has higher white noise level than normal, we'll figure out why.

I think you'll have fun seeing how our products are manufactured, there a lots of machines that go whirl and people just testing away! It's a lot of fun to watch.

Thanks Brian and I hope we can get together soon.

Sincerely,
 
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PMA5000EX

jchang10 said:
I am this close (holding 2 fingers pinched together) to placing my first real avionics order, which included the GMA-240. At $800, it's $200 less this new PSE box. ( I know hard to believe that Garmin is the lowest cost provider.)

I was wondering what are the must-have features in the new PSE that is not in the Garmin to justify the extra cost that will overcome the hissing noise i've heard about.

The only thing I know about PSE are the complaints about the hissing noise.
Click to expand...

Dear jchang:

I'm not sure if there are really any "must haves" when it comes to flying;) but there are some significant benefits (IMHO) that the PMA5000EX will bring to home-built cockpits.

Here are some of the new stuff that we are bringing to the cockpit:

The PMA5000EX supports two switched Auxiliary (AUX) receiver inputs for any audio source where switch control is desired. One unique feature of the AUX inputs is the ability to automatically mute the audio for 60 seconds. This is useful in cases where the audio is an alert that has been recognized, but becomes annoying. After 60 seconds, the audio is automatically restored. Pilots have asked for ways to temporarily disable audio alarms, and we have responded.

For the person who wants the most in music muting flexibility, we provide four different mute modes. By pressing the Mute button, the pilot can select Mute On, Mute Off, Intercom Mute, and Radio Mute. A new capability that the pilot can enjoy is to enjoy listening to music even when in Isolate mode!

The 4-place hi-fi stereo intercom has our IntelliVox(r) squelch protocol. It really does work exceedingly well, with great PIREPS from pilots flying aircrafts ranging from J-3 Cubs to P-51. Since 1997, there have been more than 60,000 IntelliVox(r) systems installed in various aircraft.

Plus the IntelliVox(r) that is built into the PMA5000EX even has a High Noise capability, making the highly acclaimed automatic VOX that much more effective in the very most noisy environments. This special "High Noise" capability is configured, if needed, by switch settings inside the audio panel.

There's a bunch more, but I DON'T want to turn this into a sales pitch. But you did ask what are some of the "must haves" and for some of the pilots are, these functions are just that.

I appreciate the privilege of being a member of VAF and wouldn't do anything to jeopardize my relationship with this forum.

By the way, the difference in price between the GMA240 and the PMA5000EX is only $100, not $200.

Thanks for asking.

Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering, Inc
www.ps-engineering.com
 
hi Mark... thanks for clarifying those points. It's certainly nice to see these lines of communication directly with the manufacturers from time to time. I'll certainly be taking a closer look and doing some of my own comparisons. Thanks!

Jae
 
PM5000EX

tim2542 said:
Hey Marc can you tell us if PSE will require the harness to be purchased with the unit?
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As with all of our products, even the ones made for the experimental market, our products must be either installed by a PS Engineering, OR, a custom wire harness be purchased from us OR a harness be purchased from a PS Engineering dealer.

Why? I promise it is not because we want to be in the harness building business! We do it so the homebuilder has the option to perform their own installaton and that we are able to support that installation.

No offense but, in the beginning (1985), we didn't have this requirement and it was a nightmare for us. We simply don't have the resources to answer questions on how to build harnesses or help trouble shoot a harness that we don't know how it was made. It debilitated us from from designing and building stuff.

And we also found ourselves as being the bad guys because "it couldn't be the harness they built, it must be the hardware". But the majority of the cases, that wasn't the case at all.

While getting a harness is a requirement, there is still much work to be done installing the harness, mounting the harnware, and interfacing to the radios.

A beneift to this is that if you do run into a problem after purchasing our harness, we are there to support you through the process of solving it, no matter what the issue.

Hope this helps.
Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering
 
Mark - what is the price of the harness

Mark,

What would the price delta be for a 2 place harness for a side by side model?
 
To anyone considering the white noise issue I am having with my pm3000 intercom, please do not hold this against PS Eng. I think this issue only shows up in that model and I have never heard anything but praise for the other audio panels. Mark has offered to check out my unit and it is my fault that this has not been done yet. I have been realy busy at work and working on the plane and have not taken him up on his offer. That's my fault not his. PS Eng is the best in this market! Imagine the President of the company supporting this forum! What better service could you have?

mscheuer said:
Thanks Brian!

I was hoping that you would have stopped by the factory sometime. I see that the white noise you were mentioning is giving some of our customers a concern about our products and that's a bummer.

Please stop by and bring your intercom, if your intercom has higher white noise level than normal, we'll figure out why.

I think you'll have fun seeing how our products are manufactured, there a lots of machines that go whirl and people just testing away! It's a lot of fun to watch.

Thanks Brian and I hope we can get together soon.

Sincerely,
Click to expand...
 
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Thank you

Brantel said:
PS Eng is the best in this market! Imagine the President of the company supporting this forum! What better service could you have?
Click to expand...

Now I'm blushing.....:eek:

Thank you so much Brian for your support, I really appreciate your very kind words.

It's an open invitation, you are welcome here anytime, but please bring your intercom. The reasons are selfish - I want to listen to your intercom, if it isn't performing the way it was designed, it gives me the chance to make it right.

If it is working as it is designed (I hope not), then we'll take a second look at the issue and see if we can improve it.

My opinion? I think you might have a unit that has more white noise than design allows and we can exchange it for you. You happy - We happy!

Mark
 
Worksheet

mscheuer said:
Here is the link for the Harness Worksheet

http://ps-engineering.com/docs/PMA5000EX_Harn.pdf

You can calculate exactly how much it will cost.

Hope this helps

Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering, Inc.
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Mark, While we are on the subject of worksheets, you might want to take a look at yours. I've used it twice and had to modify it both times.
You require Aux jacks in your instructions and show them on the worksheet and ask the wire length from intercom to aux jacks but don't ask the wire length from aux jacks to radio. I know this is picky, but your operation seems so top notch I wanted to point this out. Maybe even a different worksheet for each setup---like 2 place--4 place--6 place.etc.

Also I wanted Bose/LEMO jacks installed in addition to the standard jacks and I was referred away from PSE. No Problem as I called SteinAir and he was glad to do it. It surprised me that, one you had a customer and sent him away and two that your harness people don't want to do a seemingly standard upgrades to what I know to be fine wiring harness work.

Please don't take this as bashing or anything negative, I like your products enough to buy them and recommend them. Just trying to point out issues
I ran into while using your literature and ordering process.
Thanks for great products and participating here in the forums.
 
PMA5000EX

Dear Bob:

Thank you so much for your valuable input. No kidding, if it weren't for our customers trying to keep us on the straight and narrow, no telling where we'd be today.:confused: You've heard about KISS, well we use IAAC (It's All About Customers) here.

Bob Martin said:
You require Aux jacks in your instructions and show them on the worksheet and ask the wire length from intercom to aux jacks but don't ask the wire length from aux jacks to radio. I know this is picky, but your operation seems so top notch I wanted to point this out. Maybe even a different worksheet for each setup---like 2 place--4 place--6 place.etc.
Click to expand...

I think you are referring to our INTERCOM harnesses. If that is the case, it is important to note that we do not provide the wires that go from the Auxillary Mic and Auxillary Headphone jacks to the radio/audio panel. That's because we believe the installer will need to have the crimping tools and the specific pin/connectors that radios/audio panels have. For us to provide could potentially change the scope of our involvement in the installation.

It is something certainly worth considering though and I will speak to our technicians and get their input.

Bob Martin said:
Also I wanted Bose/LEMO jacks installed in addition to the standard jacks and I was referred away from PSE. No Problem as I called SteinAir and he was glad to do it. It surprised me that, one you had a customer and sent him away and two that your harness people don't want to do a seemingly standard upgrades to what I know to be fine wiring harness work.
Click to expand...

Sorry about that. The reason that happened is that we don't have flexibility built into our current harness building production. While its true that each harness is custom made to our customer's specification, we know exactly how much time it will be to make it. If we would interface to the Bose, Lightspeed, Sennheiser or others we don't really have a model of how much to charge for that. It gets complicated.

The good thing is that the harness is built within 5 days upon receipt of the worksheet. That's pretty fast! And building harnesses here at PS Engineering is not a profit center for us, it's a service.

Thank you so much for being a repeat customer. That's critical to our continued success. If you haven't noticed, we have very little budget for advertising. We only adveritise in AOPA and that is only a 1/3 page ad. If it weren't for customers like yourself, and all of our customers that pass the good word onto their friends, we probably wouldn't be in the position of being able to invent new things - and I love that part of our business.

Thanks again Bob.

Sincerely,
Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering
 
Hey Stein,

I know...And that is exactly what I am doing...Gettin her done!

I have had this on the back burner since it is not the highest priority right now with trying to get flying by sometime in March and with how busy we are at work.

Mark is obviously eager to ensure customer satisfaction and wants me to drop in with the intercom. I would love to visit his facility but everything just gets in the way...

SteinAir said:
Hi Brian,

I don't mean to sound contrite here, and you know know first hand I'm here to help you, but might I politely (yet firmly) suggest getting the plane done and flying it before trying to diagnose some of these perceived problems you're having on the bench with stuff? Again, not trying to be flippant but many things behave (and are perceived) quite differently in the plane when it's all working as one big happy family verses being on the bench/ground. Anyway, not trying to flame you at all bud - just trying to keep you heading in the direction of a flying plane! :)

Just my 2 cents as usual.

Cheers,
Stein
Click to expand...
 
Harness

mscheuer said:
Dear Bob:
I think you are referring to our INTERCOM harnesses. If that is the case, it is important to note that we do not provide the wires that go from the Auxillary Mic and Auxillary Headphone jacks to the radio/audio panel. That's because we believe the installer will need to have the crimping tools and the specific pin/connectors that radios/audio panels have. For us to provide could potentially change the scope of our involvement in the installation.

It is something certainly worth considering though and I will speak to our technicians and get their input.

Thanks again Bob.
Sincerely,
Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering
Click to expand...
Mark, Thanks for your considerate response and in the interest of input, here is mine again!
One of the reasons for purchasing an intercom harness is the tedious wiring at the jacks and all the grounding of the shielded wires. Please consider that not all harness orders are for new panels. If the wires were connected to the aux jacks and left with appropriate length leads, we would have the option of adding pins for the radio/audio equipment or use butt connectors to splice into the existing wiring harnesses without disturbing the existing back shell connectors. Either way, we wouldn't have to do tedious soldering onto the aux jacks that are already professionally terminated.

Example: I order a harness to make the installation easier. You build me a harness and recommend or insist that aux jacks be installed, then you send me a beautifully made harness without the aux jacks installed. So, I , not wanting to mess with jack soldering, just bypass the aux jacks and hook up the harness..........It works wonderfully, but without the aux jacks.

I know this wouldn't happen if you were dealing with a radio shop, as they would just do what it takes or build the entire harness. I'm speaking from the homebuilder/flyer side. Which is the forum we are on. Just my 2Cents.

Mark, after writing this explanation and thinking about all the possible installations that are available, I understand why you stop building the harness where you do. And I certainly respect your business model for keeping turn around times and costs down. Maybe you could just add a note to the worksheet explaining where you stop and why. Then we would know up front and seek alternatives elsewhere, or not!
 
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PMA5000

Bob Martin said:
If the wires were connected to the aux jacks and left with appropriate length leads, we would have the option of adding pins for the radio/audio equipment or use butt connectors to splice into the existing wiring harnesses without disturbing the existing back shell connectors. Either way, we wouldn't have to do tedious soldering onto the aux jacks that are already professionally terminated.
Click to expand...

Bob, you've got some really good points. You are correct, we don't send the Aux Mic or Aux Headphone jacks and that might be an opportunity to make an improvement.

There are so many variables, it can drive someone CRAZY:eek:

Some airplanes already have these jacks, so we add them, charge the customer and then they call and tell us they don't need them and ask to return them and send them some money back.

Or, we include the Auxillary Mic and Auxillary Jack only to find out that they simply don't want to use them and complain we charged for something they didn't want.

Then there is the case we include the jacks and add the specification for the lenght of wire to go to the radio/audio panel, they call us for the appropriate pins and we tell them we don't have them. Now they are mad because they were expecting a turn key solution. And that is something we simply won't be able to do, beyond the scope.

And then finally, there are the VAF customers, they call us just to tell us how wonderful we are (WE LOVE VAF members!) Now that's sweat!

All kidding aside, you have our attention and I'll see what impact making this change to our INTERCOM harnesses would have on price.

Thanks again for your input Bob.

Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering
 
Another white noise recipient

Brian, Stein, Mark, et.al.
I've written on this before with no resolution, but since we're on the subject, I'll take another run at it.

I've got 2 of the PM3000's. One in an RV-9A thats been flying a couple of years now and one in my new RV-8 that I've got a grand total of 10 hours on.

They both have a TON of white noise. With any headset you care to use (more noticable in the Zulu's because it just got a bunch quieter).

I've basically just lived with it in the 9, but when I was building up the panel for the '8 I decided to look into this. I built up the harness and installed the intercom and there was the hiss. Soooo, I took it out and put it on the bench and started debugging. I hooked up a power supply, headset and radio. HISS. I got rid of the radio, HISS. I got rid of the power supply and put in a battery, HISS. I built a harness with exactly 3 wires 6 inches long, power, gnd, headset audio, HISS. I tried different headsets, HISS. I tried passive headsets, HISS. I tried my walkman headphones..... You get the idea.

I'm thinking that the output amp just has a fair amount of hiss! :D

I'm a EE although electronics isn't the primary thing I do, but I don't see anywhere that I've introduced this. Its just in the intercom. I've let several other pilot/engineers listen to it and they all think its on the high side.

Let me be clear. The intercom works GREAT. But its not as quiet as it should be. The hiss does NOT disappear once the motors running. I can plainly hear it. I can turn the headset volume on my Zulu's down and the intercom volume up. That will raise the signal to noise and help push the hiss down and the expense of volume range.

It just seems that it should be better than this. Especially for stereo with music.

I hate to throw rocks, especially since the intercom part of the deal works so well, but I'm a two time customer with two hissing units at this point.

I'd like to help figure this out instead of just bitch about it.;)
Let me know if I can help in that regard.

Brantel said:
Hey Stein,

I know...And that is exactly what I am doing...Gettin her done!

I have had this on the back burner since it is not the highest priority right now with trying to get flying by sometime in March and with how busy we are at work.

Mark is obviously eager to ensure customer satisfaction and wants me to drop in with the intercom. I would love to visit his facility but everything just gets in the way...
Click to expand...
 
PS

Mark,
You guys are up in Lenoir TN right. I'm down in Huntsville. If we can get a decent day. I'll fly one up and meet you. You can take a look at it in its natural habitat! :D
Let me know.
 
dedgemon said:
Mark,
You guys are up in Lenoir TN right. I'm down in Huntsville. If we can get a decent day. I'll fly one up and meet you. You can take a look at it in its natural habitat! :D
Let me know.
Click to expand...

I am sorry that our intercom is not performing to your expectations. Of course I would be more than happy to come to you at McGee-Tyson anytime. Just either give me a call or email and I will be at TYS.

I would enjoy seeing your airplane, listening to the intercom, determine a course of action and hope send you back on your way with a plan.

If there is time, I'd love to show you my aircraft and if interested, demonstrate some neat new stuff that I have in my airplane.

Just let me know.

Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering
 
Visit Knoxville

dedgemon said:
Mark,
You guys are up in Lenoir TN right. I'm down in Huntsville. If we can get a decent day. I'll fly one up and meet you. You can take a look at it in its natural habitat! :D
Let me know.
Click to expand...

I was wondering if you are still planning on coming up to Knoxville any time soon. I continue to be very interested in hearing your intercom, get a better understanding of the problem, and then coming up with a solution.

Thanks

Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering
www.ps-engineering.com
 
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ExpressSCH Component?

I'm working on schematics for a panel upgrade using ExpressSCH. Has anyone created a 'component' for the PSE 5000EX yet? If so, could I get it?

One other comment. Two entertainment inputs and 40 different ways of muting is nice; but it is something I won't ever use in my two place RV, flying alone 99% of the time. I would much rather have something to make flying a little safer/easier, like a digital voice recorder. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to add this on to the 5000EX?

bc
 
Hi Greyhawk - I have an express SCH component for the audio panel. PM me your email and I'll send it to you. Use at your own risk - I haven't checked it yet :)
 
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