[N23J]

I'm a newbee to this form and building. I've got my RV8 preview plans and I'm getting things off my "Honey Do List" so I can start building. I have some questions that I'm sure there will be differing opinions and that's OK by me. The more the better. The role of this airplane is day VFR fun runner with the occasional cross country. Single pilot (me) with the occasional passenger. I want it LIGHT (did I say light), dependable, and low maintenance. The only thing for IFR safety would be a glide slope instrument for an emergency. So here are my questions (This will not be a quick build kit.)
1. grove gear yes or no (occasional of un-improved strips)
2. EFS yes or no
3. Vacuum system yes or no
4. Battery front or back ( I'm a big guy 6'2" 230)
5. Wing leveler auto pilot yes or no Alt. Hold? (True Trak)
6. Independent engine gages or single system monitor
7. Minimal Priming? I live in the nevada desert (loaded question)
8. Constant Speed or Fixed (this is a good one)
They key for me is minimum equipment for day VFR simple and LIGHT (did I say that word again). If I get some kind of problem I'll put it down and fix it later if I have to. I've got another plane for cross country with the family or hard IFR. Your experiences and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Flying just for fun is going to be a new experience for me.
Thanks
Alan

 

[AntiGravity]

Answers

Well, I'm building an -8 and 95%+ of my eventual flying will be from grass strips, some better than others. I'm pitching for night-VFR with oh-me-god IFR capability (as in, I've really messed up, please get me down in one piece!). So here goes...

1. grove gear yes or no (occasional of un-improved strips)

For me, I went with Grove because I plan to have them polished; they'll look cool. And no fibreglass fairings to mess around with. Yep, they're a little lighter too; bonus!

2. EFS yes or no

EFIS? For me, yep. I like them and I think they'll have better resale in 15-20 years. Not to mention all that functionality.

3. Vacuum system yes or no
Nah; don't need heavy. More weight. Apparently prone to failure, though not being a pilot I have no experience of my own here.

4. Battery front or back ( I'm a big guy 6'2" 230)

Went with it in back. Can't really say why; seems to be a consensus for this way. We'll see...

5. Wing leveler auto pilot yes or no Alt. Hold? (True Trak)

Didn't plan too. Got talked into it. Apparently very worthwhile in an RV. I'm planning a TruTrak Digiflight II VS.

6. Independent engine gages or single system monitor

Going glass here; I just like it, for the same reasons as the EFIS.

7. Minimal Priming? I live in the nevada desert (loaded question)

I live in wet Waikato, New Zealand; everything gets primered!

8. Constant Speed or Fixed (this is a good one)

Would really like CS, but the extra cost means a Catto 3-blade for me. Light, smooth and performs well. Ok, so I lose on that "yikes!" take-off capability, but I think I can live with that...

Cheers,

 

[Mike S]

Welcome!!!!!!

I'm a newbee to this forum ---- Alan

Well, welcome aboard. You made a good choice.

Good to have you.

 

[Rick6a]

Beauty costs...how pretty do you want it?

Alan,

I get a sense what you seek is some degree of validation. You can poll forum members all you want and in the process will virtually guarantee all manner of differing opinions but you indicated you are already prepared for that. Still, most topics can be researched in the archives and you will find what you seek.....a lot of opinions.

Questions 4 and 8 are answered in literature already published by Van's. From long experience, they KNOW what works and how it works when wedded to their airframes.

The remainder of your itemized points are essentially "niceties" and in the end your job is to decide how light you really want to build the airplane coupled with how deep you want to reach into your wallet to come up with the cash.

Whatever choices you ultimately make, be assured your money will fly out in all directions before your airplane does, nevertheless, you are in for a blast!

Welcome, and happy building.

 

[N23J]

Thanks

Thanks for the welcome everyone!!!!! I have read some of the articles in vans and on this sight. I'm still trying to search for as much info as I can. I know that people say questions are repetitive by newbees. My wallet is open for LIGHT but not for fancy unnecessary gadgets. The validation issue is correct. I'l keep looking for info (validation). I just was looking for other pilots with experience with RV8's giving the reasons for their personal choices.
Alan

 

[Ironflight]

Maybe a -4?

Hello Alan, and welcome to the fun!

In reading your first post, I had an unusual thought - unusual for me especially, because I think that the -8 is the pick of the Van's litter - maybe what you really want to build is a -4!

Your emphasis on "light" and the purpose of "fun, day VFR with only an occasional cross-country", coupled with the fact that you already have another plane for traveling, is what got me thinking about the choice.

Many folks say that the -4 is the best handling of all the RV's - quick, light, and wonderfully balanced. The -8 is the best all-around performer in my estimation, but I would describe it as solid and responsive, rather than excessively light.

Your size might be the deciding factor for you, and in that respect, I would understand - the -8 is a very comfortable cockpit - but before you commit, you might try on both airplanes (if you haven't already) and make sure you match the lane to your mission.

Sorry if I'm telling you something you already know.....

Paul

 

[Kahuna]

1. grove gear yes or no (occasional of un-improved strips)
2. EFS yes or no
3. Vacuum system yes or no
4. Battery front or back ( I'm a big guy 6'2" 230)
5. Wing leveler auto pilot yes or no Alt. Hold? (True Trak)
6. Independent engine gages or single system monitor
7. Minimal Priming? I live in the nevada desert (loaded question)
8. Constant Speed or Fixed (this is a good one)
They key for me is minimum equipment for day VFR simple and LIGHT (did I say that word again). If I get some kind of problem I'll put it down and fix it later if I have to. I've got another plane for cross country with the family or hard IFR. Your experiences and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Flying just for fun is going to be a new experience for me.
Thanks
Alan

Following your keys, the answers are a given
No
No
No
Back
No
Single
None
Fixed Sens.

 

[N23J]

Never been in a RV4

Kahuna Thanks I like your style Paul I have never been in a 4 or actually seen one up close only 8's and 7's. My good friend who has been in all of them numerous times told me I didn't want a 4. So I opted for the eight. I understand and know the role and mission for this plane I want to build as you can tell. I'll look at the 4 on the van's website. I'll have to find one to sit in and fly.
Thanks

Alan

 

[N941WR]

2. EFS yes or no
3. Vacuum system yes or no
5. Wing leveler auto pilot yes or no Alt. Hold? (True Trak)
6. Independent engine gages or single system monitor
8. Constant Speed or Fixed (this is a good one)

Alan,

About all I know about an -8 is what they look like. However, I do know a thing or two about building light.

2. EFIS - Yes, Go with the Dynon D180. Simple, light and easy to install. Includes all the engine info you will ever need and has an HSI too. Couple it with a 396/496 and you have weather and all the IFR approaches in North America. Enough to get you out of trouble.

3. Vacuum system - No. Not needed with the EFIS.

5. Wing leveler auto pilot yes or no Alt. Hold? - If you want one, Dynon now sells one that is driven off the D180. I suspect it will be more adequate for your VFR flights and you can expand it as you desire.

6. Independent engine gages or single system monitor - See #2 above.

 

[chrispratt]

My 2 cents

1. grove gear yes or no (occasional of un-improved strips)
2. EFS yes or no
3. Vacuum system yes or no
4. Battery front or back ( I'm a big guy 6'2" 230)
5. Wing leveler auto pilot yes or no Alt. Hold? (True Trak)
6. Independent engine gages or single system monitor
7. Minimal Priming? I live in the nevada desert (loaded question)
8. Constant Speed or Fixed (this is a good one)
They key for me is minimum equipment for day VFR simple and LIGHT (did I say that word again). If I get some kind of problem I'll put it down and fix it later if I have to. I've got another plane for cross country with the family or hard IFR. Your experiences and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Flying just for fun is going to be a new experience for me.
Thanks
Alan

Alan:

I don't have experience with all of these items but since I built a VFR version of my -8 and now have 250 hours flying it here are my opinions if I were to build it over again:

1. No. Why spend the extra $$. Van's gear is simple, rugged.
2. Yes. The new EFIS choices are light, relatively low $$, and much more dependable than mechanical gyros, etc. Eliminates many other instruments. You've got plenty of good choices, too.
3. No. Who needs the weight and complexity with the new electronic stuff available. Make sure you get something with a back-up battery.
4. Back. Trust me.
5. TruTrak ADI Pilot II or similar. RV-8 is very sensitive. Can't fly hands off and fold a map without changing course 30 degrees. I tried a wing leveler and changed for the altitude hold and GPS tracking. You won't regret it even for local flying, but more than a nicety for cross-country.
6. Your choice on this issue, but I like EI's single gauges.
7. Depends on how old you are. Over 50, the plane will outlast you. No priming. Save the time for building.
8. Constant speed. You're cheating yourself and will never know how well an -8 can perform without it. Awesome.

Hope this helps. You'll love the -8. It was designed for taller guys, and "relaxed fit" Levi's

Chris

 

[panhandler1956]

Good questions

I am building an -8 and have answered those questions for myself in mostly the same way as above, but I have recently had one nagging question (hope I'm not hijacking this thread).

If I load up on a D180 or a AFS3500, what do I do if it craps out? I have a friend with a Blue Mountain that couldn't fly his -4 for the better part of 3 months during the summer due to EFIS issues, etc. He had an older version of the EFIS ONE and the factory supported him fairly well, but I would be really impatient with something like this. I assume that most of the 'boxes' are pretty reliable as I haven't read any horror stories like this, but the issue remains - if the box isn't in the airplane, you can't fly it (too integrated with the EMS).
Thoughts?
(added comment: I'm not worried about an inflight failure, but rather I don't want my expensive airplane stuck in the hangar cause I can't see the oil pressure, temp, volts/amps, etc.)
Maybe a backup Rocky Mtn - it's low tech and relatively cheap, but would take up valuble real estate.

 

[N941WR]

If I load up on a D180 or a AFS3500, what do I do if it craps out?

Bret,

I asked myself the same question and answered it this way:

Included a steam airspeed, altimeter and slip ball. Those items are light and simple to install. For compass heading my Garimn 496 can provide that and it has its own internal battery in the event of a power problem. (I did purchase but never installed a whiskey compass because of the GPS.) BTW, my Dynon also has the internal battery for backup.

As for the engine instruments...
If my Dynon EMS goes dark and the thing up front keeps making noise, I figure I can get on the ground without knowing what RPM I'm running just as I did when the tach cable broke on my old airplane.

PS. I doubt you will have problem with the Dynon or AFS, they are proving to be very reliable.

 

[cholladay]

1. grove gear yes or no (occasional of un-improved strips)
I used vans gear

2. EFS yes or no
Advanced flight systems 3500EE

3. Vacuum system yes or no
NO not needed

4. Battery front or back ( I'm a big guy 6'2" 230)
I am 6'2" and 260. The weight balance that I did showed the Battery on the firewall works better for me. I went with the oddessy

5. Wing leveler auto pilot yes or no Alt. Hold? (True Trak)
Tru-trac pictorial pilot II'

6. Independent engine gages or single system monitor
My efis has the engine monitors

7. Minimal Priming? I live in the nevada desert (loaded question)
I did not prime mine
8. Constant Speed or Fixed (this is a good one)
Constant speed
They key for me is minimum equipment for day VFR simple and LIGHT (did I say that word again). If I get some kind of problem I'll put it down and fix it later if I have to. I've got another plane for cross country with the family or hard IFR. Your experiences and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Flying just for fun is going to be a new experience for me.

 

[RV8RIVETER]

Airplane building is so personal, build it the way it makes you happy.

My data point.

I am 6'3" 240.

Went with non airfoil Grove gear, saved 6-7 more lbs and $$.

Battery is in back, I have a 200hp up front.

I find the EFIS can be light and really wanted the situational awareness. I saved by having the only nav be the EFIS GPS. Went with GRT sport and EIS. You can see my panel posting I have plenty of room left over.

Vacuum, definitely not. Too much trouble and $$.

Building with TT ADI pilot in mind. Bought the mount hardware and running the wire, may or may not be able to buy before flying. Everyone I talked to who put one in would not even think of removing, especially on X-country.

I have 4 different color primers plus Alodine. I used whatever was cheap, easy ( big part or small, lots or just one) or handy at the time. Unless a joint, or steel, or flat bottom surface don't think it is all that important.

Definitely constant speed for me. The main reason is flexibility, it makes for a great airbrake on a very slick aircraft.

So far on budget for $50k completion cost, not counting paint, and I don't owe anyone a dime. Oh yeah, I should mention this is year 10 (the absolute last one) and counting.

Good Luck.

 

[Andy Hill]

Our RV-8 first flew end Oct 07 and now have 65+ hours on it.. My thoughts to your questions:

grove gear yes or no (occasional of un-improved strips)

Grove would take a lot of hassle paperwork to be cleared in the UK. Reckon we would have gone for it otherwise... so no comment. One thing we did do, invaluable for lots of UK grass Ops, some quite rough, was larger / fatter tyres We flew right through the UK winter... some UK RV's with standard RV tyres either cannot fly and/or need to remove spats.

EFIS yes or no

A Dynon D180 is cheaper and easier to install than the equivalent steam Insts. Suspect the competitors are too.

If I load up on a D180 or a AFS3500, what do I do if it craps out? I have a friend with a Blue Mountain that couldn't fly his -4 for the better part of 3 months during the summer due to EFIS issues, etc.

We have clockwork ASI, Alt, E2B compass (UK required anyway), and RPM/MAP/Oil P. Reckon we could not only land it easily that way, but in fact fly for a few weeks awaiting the Dynon repair etc., especially now it is run in and we know how it ticks

Vacuum system yes or no

No! Last century stuff...

Battery front or back ( I'm a big guy 6'2" 230)

Doesn't really matter about "you" - it's the back seater. Leave decision until late... and even leave it so it can be easily changed. We have 180HP XP-IO-360 + Hartzell BA. A colleague built same(ish) spec with Fwd Battery, and has to add ballast to fly solo in limits. So we put it in the rear. We can carry 195lb rear seater AND stay in/on the Aeros rear limit. We think we have about the ideal Basic CG (78.59") for solo/dual/aeros flying. Further forward and solo landing, especially 3 point would be difficult... further aft and dual aeros would be light weight rear seaters only

Wing leveler auto pilot yes or no Alt. Hold?

No comment. We don't have any, but are both pilots, so spend more time arguing who is going to fly rather than both handing over to a black box!

Independent engine gages or single system monitor

See above... we've sort of done a compromise...

Minimal Priming? I live in the nevada desert (loaded question)

No answer!

Constant Speed or Fixed (this is a good one)

We went C/S... partly to maximise performance, but also make aeros more carefree handling (i.e. not having to watch overspeeding prop). It is obviously a cost issue, but in fact fitting the C/S prop is v simple.

They key for me is minimum equipment for day VFR simple and LIGHT (did I say that word again). Flying just for fun is going to be a new experience for me

Nice to hear!

Hope of some use...

Andy & Ellie Hill
RV-8 G-HILZ
http://www.g-hilz.co.uk/ [under construction!]

 

[N23J]

Thanks

You guys have been very helpful.
Alan

 

[Jaypratt]

KISS

Alan:

I don't have experience with all of these items but since I built a VFR version of my -8 and now have 250 hours flying it here are my opinions if I were to build it over again:

1. No. Why spend the extra $$. Van's gear is simple, rugged.
2. Yes. The new EFIS choices are light, relatively low $$, and much more dependable than mechanical gyros, etc. Eliminates many other instruments. You've got plenty of good choices, too.
3. No. Who needs the weight and complexity with the new electronic stuff available. Make sure you get something with a back-up battery.
4. Back. Trust me.
5. TruTrak ADI Pilot II or similar. RV-8 is very sensitive. Can't fly hands off and fold a map without changing course 30 degrees. I tried a wing leveler and changed for the altitude hold and GPS tracking. You won't regret it even for local flying, but more than a nicety for cross-country.
6. Your choice on this issue, but I like EI's single gauges.
7. Depends on how old you are. Over 50, the plane will outlast you. No priming. Save the time for building.
8. Constant speed. You're cheating yourself and will never know how well an -8 can perform without it. Awesome.

Hope this helps. You'll love the -8. It was designed for taller guys, and "relaxed fit" Levi's

Chris

I built my RV8 for local flying AND Cross country, I did install the grove gear.
Mine came in 1067 lbs, ECI engine, Hartzell, prop a must have. all in all I agree with Chris on this one. EI guages, Digitrak II, keep it simple, they fly better if you keep them light.

 

[rv8guy]

For the light side, I used non airfoil grove gear, light prop, and small battery up front.

Worked out very well

I think you can find somebody that likes almost any option, so keep shopping those ideas.

I may be getting laazy as I approach 60, but the autopliot is really nice on trips, and the new Dynon would be my choice for a VFR setup

Keep dreamin, start poundin and you'll ge there

 

[raddatz]

1. Yes air foil Groove you won't have to worry about lining up the fiberglass fairing for flight also lighter and the brake lines I promise won't leak.
2. Yes use the Advanced EFIS 3500 EE model or a pair of 3400's and stack them.
3. No leave the vacuum systems to the certified garbage.
4. Battery in the back unless you are using a 0-320 with a wood prop, a little more weight in the tail helps speed and aerobatics.
5. Yes use the Trutrak and get at least the Digi Flight 2.
6. Again use the Advanced flight system and make sure you get the battery backup option.
7. Prime it for resale value.
8. Constant speed