[RV7Guy]

Okay, my neighbor is building a 7 Tip up. He's not on the Forum but I've recommended it to him many times. He's working on the canopy. Over the course of his build he will ask a question and seek advise then, "do his own thing." Time after time, myself or other RV builders have recommended something, he's done it his way only to find we were right. (He's the same guy that wants to have the lightest RV7 in history. No lighting of any kind, lightening holes everywhere, you get the picture.)

Now he's doing his canopy and has made the "Big Cut." The problem is he has left about 1" of the molding flange on the front of the canopy, intent on securing the canopy with this flange in place. Obviously the fill necessary to get this faired in will be significant. And, due to the closeness to the front edge of the skin, there won't be enough room to properly make the transition.

I'm trying to show him how the canopy should be cut to get the right transition and prevent him from buying a new canopy, which is inevitable.

I'm ready to shut up and let him pay the piper. I'm sure I'm not the only one that has encountered such a builder. Any hints on how to convince him that he is looking at disaster? Or should I just back off?

 

[G-force]

Back off, let them do their thing (they will reguardless of what you say) and watch the free entertainment!

 

[Bob Brown]

Interesting...

In my job as a global marketing guy, I'm always looking for ways to help my customers succeed when they use MY products vs. anyone elses.

This is a great example of where Van's SHOULD be promoting VAF as a builders resource. In fact...(if I'm Van's), I'm sending information to my customers repeatedly urging them to get on VAF to save me the hassle of answering questions about things I don't even know people may be trying and may never have personally seen!!

Like any forum, there's manure and there's the unfermented form of it here, but in general...the people are good, the information is generally verifiable, it (surely) helps to minimize calls to Van's for help, and it advances the state of the art of the media (the planes we build using kits from Van's Aircraft). To have all you smart folks and multiple builders trying things, reporting back, making continual improvements, putting lots of hours onthe planes and/or systems, reporting back, etc.

Besides that, what a motivator...and for those that need it, a demotivator...hey, it takes all kinds. Some people really do need a slap in the face from time to time to keep moving or to get off their posteriors.

I was just telling someone today, that until I met Pete Howell here on VAF a few years ago <has it been that long Pete?> he threw some soft rivets in an envelope and sent them to me when I was cracking fiberglass on my gear leg fairings...something that was NOT mentioned in the instructions), I had no idea that soft rivets worked better to rivet thin (countersunk) fiberglass to the aluminum hinges on gear leg fairings than regular AN rivets. Then today, someone called me with a similar problem and guess what, we solved it in five minutes with a few different rivets...and the technology moved forward, they'll remember that, as I did. In many cases, these improvements occur at a rate of speed that even Van's can't verify because we're building the planes...they're building the kits. They haven't tried some of these techniques (and observed the results) enough to form a reasonable opinion, yes, that's an interesting observation...but we have. I can name any number of subjects that this situation is pertinent to...and most of you can name even more.

What a world (VAF) we have here. Those who never drink the magic (VAF) juice will only wish they had when they look at their projects later and see the finished products of those who have, and that's the truth.

I've seen many examples of people who have the myopic view that they don't want to know what others are doing, nor will they listen to any experienced advice. OK...Ok...ok. Do what you want. Darwin, you've done what you can...I have too with some of my acquaintances. It is what it is. Many times, at a point in their projects, the light bulb turns on that help is just a few keystrokes away...but by then they're doing last minute stuff. Those are the planes that typically sell on the used market for about 30% less than those which are put together "tight".

Some people don't recognize help as help until it's either gone or too late...(just look at how many people smoke)

Don't worry about it, you've done all you can.

 

[AltonD]

Darwin, I will be buying a new canopy this summer. You can come hover over me and tell me what to do and what not to do. (mine cracked rather badly).

 

[E. D. Eliot]

Cut him loose

It's hard to imagine (accurately) what motivates a person like the one that you described. You can guess that he may be stubborn or immature but you'll probably never figure it out (in my experience), and who cares? You owe him nothing and even if he took your advice, he may find a way to 'blame you for something' eventually.

The aviation community is generally a very caring group of people and expertise and good advice are highly prized.

Cut him loose and don't look back or he may eventually find a way to make you regret that you ever offered him advice - lawsuit or who knows what? My two cents worth.

 

[rwshooter]

Darwin....Try a shock line or two.....Dude! you better buy the best seat belts on the planet for when that canapy flies off at 200 mph.....Dont know that I would dessert the guy altogether......you've been a great help to me and others here on this forum......Hang in there! You'll turn him around some way some how

Robb....7A wings

 

[mcencula]

Leeway, but support

I'd suggest offering your opinion, but don't push too hard. He will do what he wants to anyway. Whether it turns out bad or good, the most you can do is be a supportive friend.

One other possibility would be to stop in with a different builder some time (hey...we were just in the neighborhood...) having primed the other builder about the issue and allow your friend to hear the same advice from a second person. Sometimes hearing the same message from a different source can help the message sink in. Again, be gentle.

Good luck to both you and your friend,

 

[170 driver]

I left a little of the flange on the front of my RV9 tipup and secured it with 3 screws and nuts. The fiberglass went on just like the plans said also. I did have to use some microballoon slurry to fair everything in but it turned out nice. I think the screws made it much stronger than just using fiberglass. No cracks so far,,8 hrs flying on it. I did this because I saw an older RV4 with the fiberglass starting to crack around the front of the windshield and realized what a pain it would be to fix something like that and ruin the paint job also. I didn't have anyone around to tell me why I shouldn't do it like this so I just did it. Maybe my decision will prove to be all wrong one day but it is working ok so far.

 

[Rick6a]

Whether we care to admit it or not, in one way or another and in varying degrees all of us have been guilty of the very same behavior your friend is exhibiting. A mind, once made up is a difficult thing to change. Were it not so, none of us would finish anything because we'd be constantly buffeted between this opinion and that. I have found that it is only when people ASK that they are open to suggestion. Sure, on occasion I have been bull headed to the point of ordering replacement parts, who hasn't? That's just part of the process. Simply tell your friend that you've already done a canopy and are aware of the potential pitfalls and let him know if he has any questions you'd be happy to consult. Leave it go at that.