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N434TM

Well Known Member
I am in a unique position with Superior Air Parts. I am having to file a proof of claim with the bankruptcy court to try and recover some of my contract with them.

Long story short, Superior owed me the removal of my current engine and the install of a new XP-400.

Can anyone give me a good idea as to how many hours labor would be required to remove an engine, and install a new engine of the same make and model?

This is in my Lancair, but is the same as an RV in theory. Has a constant speed prop if that matters.

Thanks for your help.
Tom McNerney
 
N54SG said:
I am in a unique position with Superior Air Parts. I am having to file a proof of claim with the bankruptcy court to try and recover some of my contract with them.

Long story short, Superior owed me the removal of my current engine and the install of a new XP-400.

Can anyone give me a good idea as to how many hours labor would be required to remove an engine, and install a new engine of the same make and model?

This is in my Lancair, but is the same as an RV in theory. Has a constant speed prop if that matters.

Thanks for your help.
Tom McNerney
Click to expand...

A professional shop would most likely quote about 8-10 hours removal and probably about 20-25 for a reinstall.
 
N54SG said:
I am in a unique position with Superior Air Parts. I am having to file a proof of claim with the bankruptcy court to try and recover some of my contract with them.

Long story short, Superior owed me the removal of my current engine and the install of a new XP-400.

Can anyone give me a good idea as to how many hours labor would be required to remove an engine, and install a new engine of the same make and model?

This is in my Lancair, but is the same as an RV in theory. Has a constant speed prop if that matters.

Thanks for your help.
Tom McNerney
Click to expand...

8-10 hours for removal seems awful high, a professional shop should get the removal done in LESS than a day.

as for install, that is pretty variable. you could always call lancair for a shop rate, i can tell you they wouldn't under guess!:D
 
I worked at a GA shop for 5 years. I would quote 8 hours for the removal, because that includes decowl, drain oil, take complete set of pictures of the install, draining all fluids, stabilize the airplane, remove all accessories and plug the holes, lift the engine out and strip the baffling off. Could probably be accomplished in 6 hours, but I would quote a little more to give fudge factor, most shops do, and either pocket the difference (if there is any) or pleasantly surprise the customer with a lower labor bill than anticipated.

Remember this isn't an install a shop would be familer with, and there is no manual to reference to put stuff back. I've done plenty of certified airplanes that took LONGER than 8 hours as well. Properly tagging all the lines and documenting takes time.
 
Great, thanks for your help. I just want this to be a fair claim and didn't want my numbers to be off base.
 
osxuser said:
Remember this isn't an install a shop would be familer with, and there is no manual to reference to put stuff back. I've done plenty of certified airplanes that took LONGER than 8 hours as well. Properly tagging all the lines and documenting takes time.
Click to expand...

Osxuser is correct. 6-8 hours would be around a good number. What people don't think about is all the little stuff after the engine is off. Removing accessories, tagging EVERYTHING so it goes back into the right place. I have pulled a TIO-540 off a Malibu in 4 hours before BUT it was grip and rip. I had a huge pile of parts left over, nothing tagged or anything. But I didn't need to as when you have pulled off and put on as many malibu engines as I have, it becomes second nature. This is where a shop that has done them before will get it done faster.

As for putting back on I would give three days, which is about 24hours. I always takes longer to take off then to put on. Plus you must include engine set up /break in time and fixing all the little things that pop up during re-install. A constant speed prop really doesn't add that much during the re-install phase, maybe .2 or so more. It will add some time in the setup phase due to setting up the prop and such and the governor.

If you are going into a bank court situation, you are probably going to be better off calling Lancair. Have them give you a quote and put it on a company letterhead. And when you get the quote, tell them to over estimate. The court may be more willing to go along with numbers on a letterhead from the company than you just turning in some numbers. Plus you won't probably get awarded the whole amount from Superior, the court may on make them pay 80% or some percentage of the contract, if your estimate is higher you can cut down on your loss.
 
yeah, i agree you should call lancair and get them to give you an idea/ quote. you'd probably end up talking to tim wilson. phone 541 923 2244.

i know they can do the removal in less than a day, no problem. if you want to pad that upwards to try to increase your chances of recovery, let them know, they might do a general quote instead of what they knew they'd have to do to win a job.

in reality they will do it the quickest, maybe not as fast as a legacy because they've done 15 of those last year, but the company experience will come into play like the experience of mnav8or. that is where i'm coming from, since i worked there (Lancair) and live 15 miles away. Superior wouldn't have that.
 
Engine removal

I was going to have an engine removed from a TB-9 overhauled and then reinstalled. They included that in the overhaul price but said it was half day to remove and 1 day to install. I think it was going to be around $1300 of the quote.
 
As someone who's done a number of such quotes for insurance companies particularly on RV's (and in fact we do the physical work on occasion)....I can tell you my quote wouldn't be less than 6 hours for sure. Probably 2 guys could do it in a wee bit less, but overall manhours in a case like this would easily be 8-10 or more depending on accessories, cabling, sensors/probes, wiring, plumbing and what associated componentry needs to be cataloged.

I agree that if you're just ripping it off and dumping everything in a box it could be done quickly, but if everything on the engine needs to be stripped (including fuel injector lines, baffling, accessories, etc..), it takes a lot longer than you might think.

My 2 cents as usual.

Cheers,
Stein
 
Engine Replacement

Tom,
Check with the Hanger 2 crowd-Bill pulled his RV7 engine a week ago and picked it up again on Friday. You'll need to talk with him regarding the hours required for removal since I wasn't around.

While the engine was out he checked baffles, etc. and got organized so not a lot of wasted time when the engine was ready.

Install began Friday afternoon with hanging the engine using the chapter's hoist; Keith and I helped yesterday with spark plugs, baffles, starter, prop gov., and prop, etc. while Bill did the oil return lines, oil cooler, and other misc. plumbing. Not to mention supervising the two amateurs.

Bill finished the install today and fired it up with no squawks (test flight at about 1:30).

He didn't make any changes; stuck with his original baffles, brackets, etc. so he didn't need to modify anything. He used new hardware in a few places (engine mount bolts, a few baffle screws, etc.). Obviously new oil, filters, RTV here and there, alternator belt, etc. and various shop supplies.

Mike
 
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