RBD

RBD

Well Known Member
As the title states, I'm looking to buy my very first airplane, and I'm turning to you all for advice.

A little background: I'm a 25 year old, recently married, private pilot. I have had my PPL certificate for approximately 4 years and I only have 70 hours or so, which means that I fly a whole lot less than I'd like to. I am obsessed with Van's planes, but have come to the realization that it makes more sense for me to buy now and build later. This is due to the fact that I am a frequent business traveller, and need/want to spend time with my wife when I'm home on the weekends. I fly my father-in-law's Diamond DA-40 about once a month, but I'm not yet on the insurance (again, less than 100 hours in my logbook,) and I can't take the plane out by myself.

Having said all of that, I'm looking to buy my first plane. I am turning to you guys to give some advice on what planes you have owned/frequently flown in the past, and what you liked/disliked about those planes.

I am looking to spend $25,000 or less. I do not currently have a tailwheel endorsement, but it is something I would like to get, and taildraggers are certainly not out of the question. I have access to a hangar and I would be flying off of a 3000 ft. grass strip. I would like a plane that has a low fuel burn, but is enough of an airplane to do mild cross countries in (around the state of FL and maybe up into the other SE states.) Basically, an airplane that I could build hours in and my wife and I could use for fun little trips.

A guy can only browse barnstormers.com for so long before his head begins to spin. Thanks in advance for your help!
 
One suggestion - look at cost of ownership, mainly parts and labor for maintenance, not just purchase price.

If you do this, I think you'll find there are really only a handful of aircraft that fall under your price cap AND can be reasonably maintained. That price range would cover a nice Cessna 150/152, or an older, sparsely equipped (say pre-1969) Cessna 172 or Piper Cherokee, maybe a Grumman Traveler/Cheetah of the same vintage.

All of those planes are solid, predictable ships that meet the requirements in your last paragraph.

I've flown C-150s/152s and owned a '75 Skyhawk for a while. In summary: Safe, sturdy, low fuel burn, predictable handling, good short-field characteristics, good resale, good parts availability, poor visibility in the pattern, slow, not aerobatic, pedestrian looks, high-cost parts (true for all certified ships).

I HIGHLY recommend the used aircraft guide that Aviation Consumer puts out. It is a very good guide to the available models (drastic changes over the years in some cases), and also has a section for each model with a lot of "real-world" experiences from owners.
 
As much as I hate to say it, chances of finding a nice RV for that price range, already flying, is going to be somewhat slim. Not that you won't be able to, but it will probably take a while. I'm sure most would agree that an RV-9/9a would be best suited for a low time pilot, but you would probably have to build and even then it's going to be double what your price is.

Here's what I would consider:

1. Cessna 150: yeah, I know...I have hundreds of hours in them too, but they are cheap!
2. Grumman AA-1A: two seats, but low fuel burns and a little quicker
3. old Cessna 172: if you look I'm sure you can find one.

If you really want a homebuilt:

1. Zenith Zodiacs
2. Rans S-6's
3. VariEze/Long EZ

I'm sure more will reply, but I wanted to ask as well...for someone in your situation, you could always try to buy into a partnership...that may help things! :)

Best of luck to you regardless!! :D
 
Best airplane is the one owned by somebody else... :) So, why not spend just a fraction of that money and build up those 30 hours or so... then get your paws on that DA-40... it'll be cheaper in the long run if you let the old man worry about maintenance and other fixed costs ;)
 
If you're going certified, and looking for the most "fun" for your dollar, while having a plane that can do weekend cross-countries (or more, if you are hard-core), the AA1's are hard to beat - if you can find a nice one. Parts are starting to get a little hard to come by, but as long as you memorize Fletchair's phone number (they own most of the available spares), you can fly something that will prepare you well for the step up to RV's.

Show of hands please...how many of us moved from Yankees to RV's? uh-huh....quite a few!

Paul
 
Best bang for the buck would be a Piper Tri Pacer or better yet a Pacer. Get the Pacer and get a tailwheel endorsement and after flying it for a year or two you will have no problem moving up to an RV. Don
 
Get a ragwing!

I'd second the Pacer or Tri-Pacer, but the first place I'd steer you would be to a Citabria, probably a 7ECA. Just a step up from an Aeronca Champ, which would also be a great choice but a little bit more spartan.

George
 
I came in via the Pacer. That is a fine airplane and fine preparation for the RV.
 
try a 150, piper "traumahawk" (tomahawk) or beech skipper... piper 140's can be had right on the "cusp" of 25k... Grumman Yankee's are around there too...
I'm in the same boat, married, 27, house etc... except i only have 22 hours! and no stepfather with a plane either!
I'm leaning twards the Yankee, or Skipper...
 
I have a friend (who also owns a RV-3B) who is selling his Tri Pacer for, if I remember correctly, $17-18K. Engine has, I think it has about 1100 hours, not sure of total time on airframe. Great plane though for building time. Send me a p.m. if you're at all interested. It's located in Washington State.
 
I suggest you look at Cessna 120/140s and Luscombes. They are good investments (you'll get your money back), fairly inexpensive to buy and maintain, and cruise at least as fast as a Cessna 150. You will also be able to get your tailwheel endorsement and build T/W time.

A buddy of mine (also an RV-8 builder) bought a Cessna 120 while his RV was under construction. He was very generous and let me fly it whenever I wanted. I would top off the tanks and occasionally buy a case of oil and leave it in the hanger. It was very cheap flying which is what I needed while building.

Karl
 
C-140

GET a Cessna 140. You will have a great plane. One of the best learning platforms. And a good transition to the RV.
I just bought one for Carol to learn in. She will be all set to fly the Supercub and the RV when she gets her licence and a 100 hours or so in it.
I payed 25k for it and it is a cream puff. People around here are asking me to sell it to them when we are finished with it. I will not loose on the price I gave.
 
Get a Cessna 120 or 140. Get someone who knows these airplanes to help you shop for a good one. It's a managable tailwheel airplane that will teach you much if you're paying attention. I learned to fly in these airplanes over 50 years ago. I've never had any trouble transitioning to any other plane I've wanted to fly. Back before insurance companies ruled the world, I checked out in a new S-35 Bonanza in 40 minutes flying time. I currently own a Cessna 120 and an RV-6. I've recently been flying a N3N powered by a R-985. What a kick!
 
THANKS!!!

Your input is greatly appreciated and you have recommended many of the planes I was thinking of. Specifically, Cessna 150, 152 or ideally, a 140. I've even found a few 150's and 152's that were converted to taildraggers. Im glad someone mentioned a specific Citabria, as I've heard that they are great planes, but I got all confused with the different models. My father-in-law's first plane was a Tri-Pacer, so I will pick his brain about that. The Pacer also intersts me, as I am leaning more towards a tailwheel aircraft so that I will be prepared to one day build and fly my tail-draggin' RV (because they look soooo much cooler :) .)

Someone mentioned a partership, which is also something I've considered. Any advice in that arena?

Thanks again for the input.
 
rv7rv7 said:
as I am leaning more towards a tailwheel aircraft so that I will be prepared to one day build and fly my tail-draggin' RV (because they look soooo much cooler :) .)
Click to expand...
You are right, they do look COOL!! Specially a 4, or Rocket with a 3 blade prop.

By the way, take a good look at the Stinson, 108 series. One of the easiest flying conventional geared planes, and still a bargin to boot.
 
I suggest an Aeronca Champ. You?ll be able to find one in your price range and it?s a **** of a lot more fun than a spam-can 150/152.

It?ll hold its value and it?ll be a great way to log some taildragger time (it?s one of the easiest taildraggers to taxi and land). It has a stick like real airplanes and it?s the best configuration for flying, centerline tandem seating (side-by-side seating is vastly overrated).

Plus there are a huge number of devotees and parts are readily available. For more info talk to the folks at the FAA (Fearless Aeronca Aviators)

http://aeronca.westmont.edu/
 
rv7rv7 said:
Im glad someone mentioned a specific Citabria, as I've heard that they are great planes, but I got all confused with the different models.
Thanks again for the input.
Click to expand...

What, you can't make anything out of: 7GCBC, 7GCAA, 7KCAB, 7ECA? Then theirs the 8XXX series, which are the Super D's and the Scouts.... :confused: :rolleyes:

The 7ECA has a O-200 Cont. or O-235 Lycoming for power, which meets your econmy requirement, all the rest have 150 to 180 HP engines. (to my knowledge) The letters, from what I understand, deal with HP, inverted systems (KCAB) and wheither or not they have flaps. (somebody correct me if I'm wrong please!)

I'm in exactly the same boat as you age and wife wise, and my instructor has a 65 7GCAA (150 HP, fixed pitch, no flaps) that I will get my TW endorsement in when I finish my PPL instruction. I've flown in it twice to date and it is my favorite airplane that I have ever ridden in. (no RV rides yet..... :D) Fabric planes are cool, and if I can't build or buy an RV for my first plane, there's a 95% chance it'll be a Citabria in my hangar.
Food for thought.

Josh
 
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Da-40

Hi,

I'd second the reply to get the hours you need in your father in laws's plane. Use the money you would spend on a "starter' airplane to buy your kit and build when you can. I have flown the DA-40 and enjoyed it. It's not a RV, but it's a nice solid plane.
 
Getting a somewhat decent Citabria for 25K or under is going to be awful hard. Put me in the TriPacer/Pacer/Colt or Cessna 140 camp. All are good airplanes. The TriPacer/Pacer will probably give you a little more utility than the 140 depending on your size/weight and baggage you want to carry. I've owned a TriPacer and C140 previously (as well as a Citabria) and loved them all. . . . just not quite as much as the RV. ;)


Josh (a few posts up) are you sure you're not flying a 7GCAA? The 7GCBC model has flaps, the GCAA doesn't.
 
CraigH@KRPH said:
Getting a somewhat decent Citabria for 25K or under is going to be awful hard...
Click to expand...
I agree, that's one reason I recommended a Champ. And they're better looking than Citabria's...
 
Same boat here. I'm 30 have family, cars, house, job, etc.

Instead of spending all of my "airplane" budget, I bought a nice Cessna 150 that I fly at least once or twice per week. Cheap to own, cheap to operate. I'm spending the rest of the "airplane fund" on the -9 tail kit & tools. While I build the 150 will enable me to keep flying 75 - 100 hours per year for a relatively low cost, and when I need the money I'll sell it to complete the RV.

If I'm lucky the "CFO / Wife" will let me keep both when the RV's done, but I'm not counting on it! I don't get to make the decisions, I just finance the family, and my airplane habit.
 
CraigH@KRPH said:
Josh (a few posts up) are you sure you're not flying a 7GCAA? The 7GCBC model has flaps, the GCAA doesn't.
Click to expand...

You are correct. I couldn't remember if it was a GCBC or GCAA, so I guessed! :rolleyes: I haven't got to fly it yet... only ride in it. :( I tried to talk my instructor into letting me finish up in it after I soloed the 150,(at about 17 hrs TT) he didn't think that was a good idea. He's probably right... ;) Looking forward to learning it though!
 
Under $25K planes are getting hard to come by.

If you want a TW RV, start looking for a T-Craft, Champ, or Chief. These can all be had for much less than $25.

I sold my T-craft a number of years back and with 65 HP I would see 95 MPH all day long at something like 4.5 GPH. The insurance was low and the annuals didn't cost more than $400 ('97 Dollars). They also just got hit with their first real AD, and that was on the wing struts. It sounds like they are all going to need replacing. That could get costly.

[edit] This just in from the T-Craft Owners list. The AD might be changed to a SB. It turns out that a T-Craft lost its wing because the fuselage fitting pulled off the fuselage due to rust. No issue with the strut was found.[end of edit]

As much as I like the 150/152's, finding one that hasn't been trashed as a trainer will be difficult. Stay away from any one that has been converted to a TW. For some reason they just don't handle very well on the ground, much different than the 120/140's.

Champs & Chief's are fun but SLOW.

J-3's, well, they are J-3's and are now in the $40K range. How did that happen?

One thing to think about, you don't want to keep a cloth airplane outside so maybe the Grumman or Cessna (metal wings only) are the way to go.
 
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