[Luebben]

I am in the process of trying to be FAA 2020 compliant in regards to ADSB- out. Currently, I have an Apollo GX50 IFR GPS that I am using (non-waas). I also have a GRT HXR EFIS that I love and a SKYRADAR ADSB receiver.

I am not interested in upgrading to a Garmin 430W and mode S transponder due to trying to keep my costs down.

I am very interested in the Navworx ADS600BG which is an FAA approved ADS-B in and out. It also has an FAA approved WAAS GPS built in.

So, do we have anybody out there that can give me feedback on the Navworx ADS600BG?

Thanks in advance!!!

 

[jcaplins]

I am in the process of panel design myself and have been looking at the 2020 mandated ADS-B out requirements. (so please correct me if i'm wrong)

- It seems the UAT standard is not so sandard and 1090es is the way to go. So I wouldn't buy anything that is UAT, which the Navworks appears to be.

- The GRT website indicates that the integrated GPS is WAAS and can (I assumed) provide the proper GPS position for the ADS-B out.

- It's my understanding that a mode S will still required, as mode C is not compatible. (?? not so sure about this)

 

[RV10inOz]

Gents, lets define few things here so not to confuse.

STOP calling it a WAAS or non WAAS....there are portables that have WAAS that are not TSO'd in any form. What you need is a TSO 145 or 146 GPS for ADSB.

As I understand it the UAT is fine in the USA, no need for 1090ES, but you should check this out.

For those in Australia, NZ, Asia and Europe, you need to ignore everything UAT and stick with 1090ES.

For those of you looking at integrated panels, the Dynon and TRIG integrates perfectly and when just using the transponder with internal Skyview GPS, it broadcasts the correct SIL0 integrity, and is Mode S compliant. Later if you connect a TSO145/146 GPS of varying sorts it will be a ADSB compliant SIL2 output.

 

[BobTurner]

I am in the process of panel design myself and have been looking at the 2020 mandated ADS-B out requirements. (so please correct me if i'm wrong)

- It seems the UAT standard is not so sandard and 1090es is the way to go. So I wouldn't buy anything that is UAT, which the Navworks appears to be.

- The GRT website indicates that the integrated GPS is WAAS and can provide the proper GPS position for the ADS-B out.

- It's my understanding that a mode S will still required, as mode C is not compatible. (?? not so sure about this)

UAT is okay, but (1) only in the US (As far as I know Canada and Mexico have not said what if any ADSB requirements they will impose; but this would be an issue if exporting to Europe or Austrailia) and (2) UAT is not authorized above 18,000'.
Mode C is okay if you have a UAT (and either a mode C or S transponder is required).
This is the new friendly FAA, so of course the gps which provides the position source must meet a new TSO, 166b and or 154c. Existing TSO 145/146 receivers (these are the WAAS ifr approved boxes) already meet the new TSO (software upgraded is needed for the older boxes).
The GRT WAAS gps is not TSO'd, so cannot be used for this.

Right now the mentioned UAT, with TSO'd gps, plus antenna, lists for around $4000, minus the re-sale value of the Skyradar ($400). OTOH the GRT HX or HXr will control a remote mounted Trig mode S for around $2300, minus the trade in value of your existing transponder ($800???), so if you can find a TSO'd gps for around $2000 the two systems are about the same in price. Or, you have $2000 plus the trade in value of the GX50 to put towards an ifr gps box.

I think everyone is hoping UAT prices will come down; I would advise waiting.

 

[jcaplins]

I was a little off. Now it's going to cost me a lot more. I wasn't planning on an IFR, tso'd, whatever GPS. errr

 

[Neal@F14]

Only UAT will still give you an anonymous VFR mode. 1090ES uniquely identifies your exact aircraft, even when squawking 1200. Retaining an anonymous VFR mode with ADS-B is still important enough, and to enough pilots and aircraft owners, that UATs are going to sell pretty well when the ASD-B deadline nears.

Garmin and L3 have already filed patent applications to cover the concept of automatically syncing a UAT's squawk code to an existing mode-C transponder, and Garmin's GDL-88 is a self-contained UAT already available... but around double the cost of the Navworx unit.

If Garmin would make a version of the GDL-88 for experimentals, and include the ability to send its weather and traffic data via Bluetooth to iPads and android tablets (and sell it for around $2K ) they'd own the UAT market.

 

[BobTurner]

I was a little off. Now it's going to cost me a lot more. I wasn't planning on an IFR, tso'd, whatever GPS. errr

Ifr and TSO are two different things, entirely. The GPS feeding the ADSB out signal must meet some standards but not all of the ifr approach standards. The mark up in price from NavWx is about $1200 for the TSOd gps. The lower cost unit has a non TSOd gps. I have to wonder if they are in fact the same, but the latter has no TSO paperwork??

I mixed TSO numbers above. 154 is for the transmitter, 145 is for the GPS.

Yep, the dirty little FAA secret is that for NexGen, they're asking aircraft owners to pick up most of the cost - a cost which is excessively high because of all the TSO standards they are forcing on us.

 

[Luebben]

Well, the ADS600BG has a WAAS GPS that is TSO C-154c certified to use. In using an UAT system I will be receiving all weather services that are sent out on the ADSB network along with traffic. My mode -c transponder will still work. If I go with a new mode s transponder, I will still need to purchase an TSO'd WAAS GPS receiver and will not get the weather input. Am I thinking correctly?

 

[BobTurner]

Well, the ADS600BG has a WAAS GPS that is TSO C-154c certified to use. In using an UAT system I will be receiving all weather services that are sent out on the ADSB network along with traffic. My mode -c transponder will still work. If I go with a new mode s transponder, I will still need to purchase an TSO'd WAAS GPS receiver and will not get the weather input. Am I thinking correctly?

Well, the mode S option would work like this: buy Trig 22 Mode S-ES remote controlled by your HXr; sell your existing transponder; net around $1500? Buy a TSOd GPS (not an ifr approach box - just for ADSB. As I pointed out, this is a $1200 upgrade from NavWorx, so hopefully you can find a stand alone TSO gps for about that price. Keep your SkyRadar. It will interface to the HXR for traffic and weather, and also connect to an iPad via WiFi with the traffic and wx.

You'll note the costs are very similar for either system, depending on how much that TSO gps actually costs (as far as I know NavWorx is not selling it as a stand alone box).

 

[rzbill]

I am in the process of trying to be FAA 2020 compliant in regards to ADSB- out. Currently, I have an Apollo GX50 IFR GPS that I am using (non-waas). I also have a GRT HXR EFIS that I love and a SKYRADAR ADSB receiver.

I am not interested in upgrading to a Garmin 430W and mode S transponder due to trying to keep my costs down.

I am very interested in the Navworx ADS600BG which is an FAA approved ADS-B in and out. It also has an FAA approved WAAS GPS built in.

So, do we have anybody out there that can give me feedback on the Navworx ADS600BG?

Thanks in advance!!!

Luebben,
I just installed the Navworx ADS600-BG. Feel free to PM if you wish. It integrated simply with my older GRT Horizon 1 WS screens. Requires high speed RS232 ports. With the WS screens, I had to move things around to free them up (original wiring was per GRT recommendations which wasted the high speed ports) but it was not hard. What transponder do you have? I have a 327. I connected it to the Navworx such that the codes are the same and I went ahead and connected the suppression line although it is not stated as a requirement. All of that is in the Navworx manual.

It all works fine. You need to say what kind of feedback you are looking for.

I did learn recently that BOTH Navworx units are 2020 compliant. The -BG includes the TSO'd WAAS GPS internally, but the older -B unit can be fed GPS signal with a TSO'd navigator like a 430W and is 1 to 1.5 AMU cheaper than the -BG. I can't put my finger on a cheaper method to be 2020 compliant and get the ADS-B inbound features.

FYI, While the -BG has a WAAS GPS internally, the rules don't force one to use a costly antenna. A Garmin GA56 is legal and easy to get for $30 (or nothing sometimes)

Buy the Delta Pop UAT antenna.