Mugsy

Mugsy

Member
I noticed in some of the recent plane pics from the Bahama's trip that several of the planes had only 3 inch tail numbers. I was under the impression that 12 inch numbers where required for travel to/from the US. Has something changed regarding the FAA/Customs requirements on this?

Bruce Raymond
 
They are needed in the ADIZ on the way in and the way out but there is no one to enforce the requirement on the way out.

45.29
(h) After March 7, 1988, each operator of an aircraft penetrating an ADIZ or DEWIZ shall display on that aircraft temporary or permanent nationality and registration marks at least 12 inches high.

45.22
(c) No person may operate an aircraft under paragraph (a) or (b) of this section--
(1) In an ADIZ or DEWIZ described in Part 99 of this chapter unless it temporarily bears marks in accordance with Secs. 45.21 and 45.23 through 45.33;
 
Temporary N numbers

Sounds like some of the flyers taped on numbers for the return trip only. Probably a good idea as long as you don't forget to do it! That way the taped on numbers would be easier to get off on your return since they didn't bake on in the sun.
 
The international standard is for permanent 50cm markings on the side and 50 cm markings under the wing (ICAO Annex 7).

Of course, any sovereign state can record differences from ICAO, just as the US does.

In Europe, the ICAO standard is enforced with relatively few exceptions.
 
N Number Size

I am about to have my plane painted and with that the N number. I want the options to be able to fly into Canadian airspace. I understand the US requirements and that the Canadian requirements are different. Looking for advice on size. I want to keep the number as small as possible but still not raise any issues when in Canadian airspace. Suggestions?

John
 
Also verify the size needed to come back to the USA. From my Bahamas, Caymans and Mexico trips it was 12 inches. I used electrical tape. Not pretty but I believe that I adhere to the requirement.
 
3" is what is required.

IF you go very far north in Canada or into an ADIZ in the US, then you need 12" numbers.

Several of us few through Canada in our RV's with 3" N numbers to Alaska. We did not go in any ADIZ or areas in Canada that required the 12" numbers.
 
3" Numbers

John as little as you will be flying to Canada it would be far easier to take blue or green masking tape or even electric tape with you and just before you cross the border apply your temporary 12' numbers. As soon as you clear customs wad it up and throw it away. You will have more options on your paint job if you have 3" numbers. Happy flying John. I will give you a call if I head up your way. Steve
 
RV6_flyer said:
3" is what is required.

IF you go very far north in Canada or into an ADIZ in the US, then you need 12" numbers.

Several of us few through Canada in our RV's with 3" N numbers to Alaska. We did not go in any ADIZ or areas in Canada that required the 12" numbers.
Click to expand...

What Gary said (he/I have flown into Canada [2-ship] a couple of times) :)

I also found some applicable website links:

STANDARDISED VALIDATION OF A SPECIAL AIRWORTHINESS CERTIFICATE - EXPERIMENTAL (See Item #3: Carry this document in your plane)

The AOPA/COPA Guide to Cross Border Operations (US/Canada)

When you have the need to cross the ADIZ you'll need 12" N numbers. Electrical tape makes a good 'Bamboo' Font though the last time we passed through Ft. Pierce, Customs told us that the Bamboo font would no longer 'fly' with them...

sm_airport12.jpg


sm_airport10.jpg


Or you can spend some $$$ and look as cool as Condor :D

sm_airport7.jpg


Good luck with the paint! Rosie
 
When you have the need to cross the ADIZ you'll need 12" N numbers. Electrical tape makes a good 'Bamboo' Font though the last time we passed through Ft. Pierce, Customs told us that the Bamboo font would no longer 'fly' with them...
Click to expand...

So what can they do if you land with electrical tape numbers? Make you fly back to Nassau??? Sheesh. The intent is for interceptor jets to be able to get your aircraft ID. They can do that just as easy with electrical tape numbers as with professionally painted numbers than conform to the strict requirements for font and spacing.
 
the best tape solution is 3 inch blue painters tape. easy to apply and easy to remove. would seem to be legal in size. seems vman grabbed my last partial roll last year. not what the need was but he can be a bit sneaky.

came up with this email from Caribbean Flying Adventures


406 ELT Required by The Bahamas February 1, 2013
and by Mexico by June 1, 2013

Caribbean Flying Adventures (CFA) successfully collaborated with Civil Aviation authorities in the Dominican Republic and The Caymans Islands to obtain a waiver from the 406 ELT requirement. The Dominican Republic waiver is indefinite. The Cayman Islands waiver is valid through December 1, 2013 but will almost certainly be extended. CFA will work to insure that this happens.

Unfortunately, the waiver for an installed 406 ELT for the Bahamas will expire February 1, 2013 and for Mexico June 1, 2013. In order to be legal, pilots who want to fly to the Bahamas or Mexico will must install a 406 ELT.

CFA researched this issue and found that the U.S. Coast Guard continues to utilize the 121.5 frequency in their search and rescue operations. Thus, mandating the installation of the 406 ELT makes little sense for island flying. Additionally, ICAO experts have concluded than an installed ELT is useless once the aircraft sinks after the passengers have safely exited the aircraft. A hand held personal locator beacon then becomes the optimal search and rescue tool.

The bottom line is that pilots do not need to spend thousands of dollars installing a 406 ELT in order to fly to the Dominican Republic, The Cayman Islands or Puerto Rico. But begining Feb 1, 2013, they do need to spend the money in order to fly to the Bahamas.
 
turbo said:
the best tape solution is 3 inch blue painters tape. easy to apply and easy to remove. would seem to be legal in size. seems vman grabbed my last partial roll last year. not what the need was but he can be a bit sneaky.
......
Click to expand...

Err.... letter stroke = 1/6 of height.

12 inch numbers would use 2 inch tape, not 3 inch.....:)
 
JVolkober said:
I am about to have my plane painted and with that the N number. I want the options to be able to fly into Canadian airspace. I understand the US requirements and that the Canadian requirements are different. Looking for advice on size. I want to keep the number as small as possible but still not raise any issues when in Canadian airspace. Suggestions?

John
Click to expand...

John,

The Canadian regs on registration marking size only apply to Canadian registered aircraft. Foreign aircraft must meet the requirements of their state of registry - i.e., you are OK in Canada as long as your markings meet the FAA requirements.
 
Kevin Horton said:
Foreign aircraft must meet the requirements of their state of registry - i.e., you are OK in Canada as long as your markings meet the FAA requirements.
Click to expand...
Furthermore, is there an ADIZ anywhere between the US and Canada? If not, the 12" requirement for ADIZ penetration doesn't apply either.
 
Rosie said:
When you have the need to cross the ADIZ you'll need 12" N numbers. Electrical tape makes a good 'Bamboo' Font though the last time we passed through Ft. Pierce, Customs told us that the Bamboo font would no longer 'fly' with them...
Click to expand...

Rosie, I got that same attitude from a public servant at FPR coming back from the Bahamas. Fortunately, I have been greeted by friendly, dedicated non-power trip Customs folks in Key West and El Paso.

If you want to go international with a great group of folks who will help you get through the "requirements" go with a Rosie/Jim Baker trip.

I do not know where and when the next trip will occur, but look for it.
 
Last edited:
Snowflake said:
Furthermore, is there an ADIZ anywhere between the US and Canada? If not, the 12" requirement for ADIZ penetration doesn't apply either.
Click to expand...
The only ADIZ between the US and Canada is in the Gulf of Maine, over the Atlantic Ocean between New England and Nova Scotia. If you do the smart thing, and avoid extended overwater flight, you won't penetrate any ADIZ when flying between the two countries.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.