[jlisler]

Today was one of those days you wait for in flying. The skys were crystal clear (visibility was a good 30 miles) and there was not a bump in the air. I HAD to take my Cessna C140A for a cruise. After about an hour of enjoying the scenery, the sun was starting to get low so it was time to head back to the airport (17J). I announced that I was going to over-fly the runway from the west to the east at pattern alititude and that I would be entering left downwind for 18. All was progressing well in the smooth air and I announced turning final for runway 18. I was concentrating on the runway ahead and the greaser wheel landing I was about to make. I was down to about 300 feet AGL when I glanced out the left side window. I cannot describe the stark terror I felt as I saw a Kolb ultra-lite zip by 50 feet underneath me! I was heading 180 and he was heading 270, intersecting at a right angle. My gut reaction was full power and pull hard to get out of the way but honestly it was too late. The collision would have already happened before I even knew he was there if it were not for that skinny little 50 feet of altitude. I was really concerned that he might have went down short of the airport so I circled back around to have a look. I could not see him so I continued to orbit, gathering my wits, and scanning for him. I finally saw him about 1/4 mile north of the field making a low circuit for the grass on the right side of runway 18. This area is not consided to be a normal landing zone but it explains how he got where he was at when I was on short final for 18. With him in sight I made an uneventful approach to 18 although my nerves were shot. When confronted, the ultra-lite pilot said he did not see me. He even questioned me about whether I had my strobe light on or not.

I can honestly say I have felt this kind of terror very few times in the 51 years of my life. There was no panic, just fear. I went home and hugged the wife. I'm glad to be here.

Reflecting on today's event two things come to mind. The pattern flown by the ultra-lite was non-standard in that he was only a couple of hundred feet AGL and was cutting across the normal approach path to runway 18 at this altitude. Secondly and probably most important, he did not have a radio. Even though I flew the correct pattern and made all of the right calls, if no one is listening it does not matter.


So what's my greatest fear? You guessed it, a mid-air collision.

Jerry Isler
Cessna C140A N9641A
RV-4 N455J

 

[L.Adamson]

IMO, the old days of radio-less airplanes should be over. I live under an un-controlled airports pattern, and see no reason why someone shouldn't at least carry a very light weight hand-held with headphone attachments.

As you know, and I know, a handheld on board the ultra-light could have made a lot of difference.

L.Adamson

 

[mdredmond]

So what's my greatest fear? You guessed it, a mid-air collision.

Mine too.

Doug (Reeves) gave me my first RV ride in his plane. He must have thought I was neurotic because I spent the entire time looking for traffic.

I had a near-miss at DTO when I was working on my PPL in 1989. I was dual with my CFI and a Baron decided to cut inside us on the turn to final (he had been behind us I think, but flying a close-in pattern and wasn't on the radio). I was turning final and 'something' made me pick the left wing back up for another look. I could see the Baron pilot's face we were so close - maybe 100'. It scared the **** out of me and since then, my biggest fear is 'the other guy'. Everything else is under my control.

IMO, the old days of radio-less airplanes should be over. I live under an un-controlled airports pattern, and see no reason why someone shouldn't at least carry a very light weight hand-held with headphone attachments.

IMO, the days of transponder-less aircraft should be over, too. It's a small pond and I think you should have to pay to swim.

 

[osxuser]

Today I was flying in a flight of six, as number six in Glasair I RG with my buddy out of WHP. We were coming up by Santa Paula, and my lead, the #5 guy in a Comanche almost got broadsided by a aerobatic something... maybe a Zlin? I don't know it was something weird. I pushed hard to avoid him as he pass in front of my lead and then pull a hard bank around him like he was trying to come around on his six. I didn't get that close, maybe 500', but he was real close to the lead, less than 100' if i'm not mistaken. I've come really close in several instances, the big sky/little airplane theory doesn't hold water in Socal's airspace.

 

[szicree]

IMO, the old days of radio-less airplanes should be over. I live under an un-controlled airports pattern, and see no reason why someone shouldn't at least carry a very light weight hand-held with headphone attachments.

As you know, and I know, a handheld on board the ultra-light could have made a lot of difference.

L.Adamson

Gotta agree 100% here. When they wrote the rules were battery powered handhelds even available? Well they are now and they're cheap.

Glad it all worked out ok, but pretty scary and certainly unnecessary.

 

[DanH]

Clearly the Kolb pilot did not see you, which means he probably wasn't looking. Shame on him!

But, now a hard question. Jerry, were YOU looking?

So many pilots treat a CTAF call as a magic wand that clears the airspace, or worse, has them acting like they have placed a claim on the airspace. CTAF means exactly that, Common Traffic Advisory Frequency. You can use it to advise others who may or may not be listening, or care about what you said. Using it does not relieve a pilot of his primary responsibility, which is looking out the window.

Clearly your Kolb pilot was flying a non-standard pattern, or more likely no pattern at all; just doodling around the airport in an aimless manner. Again, shame on him.

But, another question: how exactly did YOU enter the pattern? You entered the airport area heading 090, overflew the runway, and headed north on downwind for 18. Did you overfly and make a decending left turn, or did you overfly outbound to the east of the airport, decend, and return on a 45 for the downwind?

If you overflew and simply turned left, you blocked your sight to the entire NE quadrant from which the Kolb was approaching. It was under your nose, and later below your right windowsill, and still later (when you were base)behind you. Not that it matters if you were looking left the whole time, at the runway.

If you simply turned left, you also took the chance that somebody you didn't see was on downwind and you were decending on top of them. They could have been under your nose in the latter part of your overflight, and remained under it as you turned left.

One last bit; consider the setting. 17J Is a little place. Airnav says you have 13 based aircraft, 9 GA and 4 ultralight. With only 13 owners on the field, can't you guys agree on some common proceedures?

Jerry, I apologize if it seems like I'm picking on you (I'm not), but it takes two to have a midair. Crying about nordo aircraft is pure self-delusion; it is not the problem. Maybe it would be more productive to slide a copy of AOPA's "Operations at Non-Towered Airports" under every hangar door.

http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/sa08.pdf

Dan Horton

 

[ww2planes]

What a weekend.

A friend and I flew over to Auburn California for breakfast on Saturday. We departed Auburn and heard over the radio what was obviously a near miss at another airport. Everyone came out ok by the sound of it but what, IMHO, made it worse was the gal on the radio trying to investigate the thing over the radio. She was one of the pilots involved and was shooting touch and go's. She was literally interogating the other party over the CATF. She kept it up for about 10 minutes and finally got a clue after the other pilot quit talking to her in the first several seconds.

Can't say who was at fault but the radio is the wrong place to conduct an investigation. He did apologize and was using his radio up until he had to turn it off so as to avoid his attacker.

We weren't involved but it sure made us watch a little closer ont he way back home. Tahoe is beautiful from about 9500'.

 

[RV6_flyer]

Today I was flying in a flight of six, as number six in Glasair I RG with my buddy out of WHP. We were coming up by Santa Paula, and my lead, the #5 guy in a Comanche almost got broadsided by a aerobatic something... maybe a Zlin? I don't know it was something weird. I pushed hard to avoid him as he pass in front of my lead and then pull a hard bank around him like he was trying to come around on his six. I didn't get that close, maybe 500', but he was real close to the lead, less than 100' if i'm not mistaken. I've come really close in several instances, the big sky/little airplane theory doesn't hold water in Socal's airspace.

Sounds like the flight flew right through the Acrobatic Box that exists EAST of KSZP. Flight lead should know where his flight is and avoid that area. All the RV Flight Leads in SoCAL know to avoid the SZP acro box NOTAMed or not.

 

[N941WR]

IMO, the old days of radio-less airplanes should be over. I live under an un-controlled airports pattern, and see no reason why someone shouldn't at least carry a very light weight hand-held with headphone attachments.

As you know, and I know, a handheld on board the ultra-light could have made a lot of difference.

L.Adamson

I'm afraid I'm starting to sound like a broken record but...

In a perfect world, yes, everyone would have a radio and broadcast on the correct frequencey but we don't live in a perfect world.

The reason a number of light aircraft (Cubs, T-Crafts, etc.) don't have a radio is that they don't have shielded ignition systems so the radio wouldn't do them any good. To mandate they install a radio would ground a lot of these airplanes and other antiques where there is just no other ignition option available.

In addition, to upgrade a Continental A-65 engine with a shielded ignition system could cost upwards of 20% of the value of the aircraft (Assuming new mags, plugs, wires, etc.) and that would effectively ground them. Not an option I advocate.

The next thing people will mandate is mode C transponders in all these old airplanes so those "rich" guys flying with magic "fish finders" can have traffic pointed out to them rather than actually look out the window.

Just my $.02

 

[cobra]

This sort of illustrates my concern with the new Sport Pilot catagory and the light, underequipped aircraft that it will spawn...

 

[gmcjetpilot]

Stuff happens

This sort of illustrates my concern with the new Sport Pilot catagory and the light, underequipped aircraft that it will spawn...

I would not worry too much. I don't think this will make the industry explode. My hope is it does because anything that expands aviation is good, but I have my doubt people will run out and buy LSA planes for $100k or even $60k in large numbers. Hope I am wrong, but if there is an explosion of LSA's, sure there will be more accidents and yes, likely mid-airs. I know it would not help here but I'm buying one of those passive transponder collision alert systems. At least it gives some protection from other transponder equipped planes, which to be fair many LSA's will be transponder equipped. The best equipment in the end is the Mk-IV eye-balls.

Just in my memory banks (rusty and illegal in 48 states) in the last month or so a business jet hit a glider and a plane hit a parachute jumper, in the pattern! Stuff happens. In a web video a skydiver was filming when a plane flew from behind and just under the jumper, what looked like feet away! (Near miss)

 

[Low Pass]

This sort of illustrates my concern with the new Sport Pilot catagory and the light, underequipped aircraft that it will spawn...

"Under-equipped, kind of like your homemade little airplane?!" As said by the F-15 pilot or 737 pilot.......

Gotta be careful on which perch we place ourselves to judge other aviators and their equipment. You start talking about equipment translating to safety, them you'll be ushering in a never ending battle of money and "safety". The result will be much more eexpensive flying and minimal to no increase in overall safety.

 

[Jamie]

This sort of illustrates my concern with the new Sport Pilot catagory and the light, underequipped aircraft that it will spawn...

Hmm...every fixed wing LSA I've seen has been rather nicely equipped. Most are equipped with a Garmin 396/496, Dynon EFIS+EMS, and an SL-40 or an SL-30...even the Cub replicas.

Maybe you're talking about the powered parachutes?

OH yeah...I agree with George that the economics of LSA as it exists today do not make sense. We hosted the EAA light sport tour at our chapter and the cheapest aircraft there was $80,000 (one of the cub look-a-likes). Cessna is claiming that they're targeting "well less than 100k" on their LSA model (which just flew, BTW). Hopefully they'll kick-start the market and add legitimacy.

 

[DanH]

This sort of illustrates my concern with the new Sport Pilot catagory and the light, underequipped aircraft that it will spawn...

Yeah. Maybe we should also ban those nasty auto conversions. You ain't even got pistons. That thing might quit and you'll fall on my house. Safety first, and to heck with personal choice.

Yes, I'm kidding.....but it does illustrate a point about judging other people's equipment. Would you, as a user of a non-certified powerplant, want permission to fly it subjected to a majority vote?

New thought: The majority of airport traffic area midairs are the result of a faster airplane overtaking a slower airplane while decending from above. Guess what scares the c#*p out of ultralight pilots at your average small town airport? The facts say it is unlikely that the slow flyer will hit the fast flyer.

Want something to worry about? Forget Light Sport and start worrying about VLJ's. These days every town with a hope for economic development wants a 5000 ft runway, but plans rarely include a control tower. My bet is that you're gonna see a whole lot of VLJ's flying a 5 mile straight-in approach to your uncontrolled airport, at 140 knots. That's probably THE most dangerous thing a pilot can do. However, they are "professionals" with many cockpit toys, not to mention their high-roller passengers bringing money to the community. Every incident will be followed by a demand to eliminate YOUR little RV, so Capt. Starbucks can practice bad proceedure...with "safety".

Dan Horton

 

[praterdj]

little of both

"Under-equipped, kind of like your homemade little airplane?!" As said by the F-15 pilot or 737 pilot.......

Gotta be careful on which perch we place ourselves to judge other aviators and their equipment. You start talking about equipment translating to safety, them you'll be ushering in a never ending battle of money and "safety". The result will be much more eexpensive flying and minimal to no increase in overall safety.

I too agree that every person should be required to use a handheld. I believe there are several places that state it's the pilot?s responsibility to utilize every resource that will enhance the safety of the flight operations. (not word for word but this is the meaning) This can be done for a couple hundred bucks. I also agree that technology or the type of equipment that is mandatory will stop this. It simply boils down to the wide range of skills as well as the varying levels of character between pilots. When in the air I try to be courteous, if you need to land before me that's fine, key your radio and ask nicely and I'll gladly put another tenth on the hobs. There are those flying who are lacking in basic scanning and piloting skills and then there are those who are just plain rude.

I was cut off in downwind by a bonanza. Turned downwind 150 or so feet in front of me. When I restated my position he said don't worry, I?m faster and I'll be out of the way before you get down. Not the point! Again I try to be polite and courteous but if it had happened again by the same arrogant pilot I would have tried to discuss it further at the fuel pumps. No one has the right to knowingly cut someone else off just because they think their plane is faster or costs more money.

All of this being said, it's overall still the greatest group of people on the planet. There are always those individuals that distract from the whole.

 

[jcoloccia]

This is a pet peeve of mine, frankly, and is why I avoid uncontrolled fields if I can. Radio or not, if everyone just enters the darn pattern the way the AIM says to, lots of problems go away. Recently, I had my worst experience at Thermal (Cochran, nowadays) where ALL 4 runways were in use, at night, with random pattern entries and random Left or Right patterns. Talk about an accident waiting to happen! This had nothing to do with radio or no radio. It was just poor judgement, IMHO. My solution was to throttle back and let everyone else go first (I could do this because I was entering the pattern the "right" way, giving me plenty of time and room to see where everyone was and choose for myself exactly when to enter the pattern). When the smoke cleared, and after a few "Where did you say you were??" exchanges between the other pilots trying to avoid each other, I made a nice, easy, no stress landing.

I think a little fear here is a good thing. It keeps my head on a swivel and that's always good

edit: and this isn't any knock to Thermal. When I left the next morning, there were plenty of people in the pattern, it was nice and orderly, and everyone's life was much easier. The departure was a pleasure.

 

[f1rocket]

I was cut off in downwind by a bonanza. Turned downwind 150 or so feet in front of me. When I restated my position he said don't worry, I?m faster and I'll be out of the way before you get down. Not the point! Again I try to be polite and courteous but if it had happened again by the same arrogant pilot I would have tried to discuss it further at the fuel pumps. No one has the right to knowingly cut someone else off just because they think their plane is faster or costs more money.

At that point, drop full flaps and turn base abeam of the runway, and drop it on the end of the runway before the Bonanza driver can even get his gear down! I hate to admit that I've done that before to someone who cut me off in the pattern. I cleared the runway before he even turned final. He never said a word.

 

[Ironflight]

I don't ever want to be accused of picking on people, and the last thing that want to do is preach....but I will share just a couple of thoughts on this. I really have to agree with DanH's comments on this - we need to always ask ourselves if we are putting ourselves in the best place to see (and be seen), and we have to be careful not to depend on the "other guy" to have and use their radio properly. I have many years as a J-3 Cub owner, and while I used a handheld, it was an extremely "iffy" thing, given the noise and poor reception.

It is a known fact that most mid-airs happen in the airport environment - that is where the most airplanes are the closest together. And that means that we can best solve the problem by concentrating our attention there.

I like to ask folks what they consider to be the purpose of the traffic pattern. Some will say it is set themselves up for landing. Others will say that it is to put everyone in a known, standardized place, so that others know where to look, and can predict what is going to happen. The first statement is kind of self-centered, and the second shows a little more awareness (and fear?) for others. I think that BOTH are probably true, yet I personally think more about the second reason than the first.

I learned something from this thread - I read the AOPA circular that was posted, and finally understand why people fly mid-field cross-winds - because it is actually listed there as an option. Personally, I have always used the AIM as guidance for pattern work, and the last time I checked it, I don't think it endorsed mid-field crosswinds (but I could be wrong). I have developed the belief that if people stay out of the middle of the pattern, that cuts way down on the incidence of people getting cut off, or flat out gettting missed or run over.

I'll lay all my cards on the table - I don't enter mid-field cross-winds because I have to worry about traffic in multiple directions, if I happened to have missed someone who is on a normal cross-wind or early crosswind. In addition, if you enter the pattern slightly high and descending, you greatly increase the chances of missing someone against the ground clutter. If I am on the "off-side" of the field, it takes me about one more minute of flying time to widen out to the right and enter a crosswind out beyond the runway, and stay out of the middle of the pattern. What's one more minute when we are talking the safety of you and others?

I acknowledge that lots of folks don't think this way. Personally, I think that the remarks (above) about courtesy are the fundemental basis for everything that I do in the air. I am more than willing to give way to anyone that wants it, if it will keep us both safer. Unless I am on fire or out of gas, I don't need landing priority that badly.

I am not willing to give up my own and everyone else's right to fly simple airplanes that might not have a radio. And I am not going to rely on everyone else using their's correctly! I have been on instrument approacehs where I was switched over to CTAF very late in the game, and to someone shooting touch and goes, they might have thought I came out of nowhere.

I have had scares due to traffic in my many years of flying. Yet nothing bothers me more than when I realize that I have made a mistake and cut someone off, or put myself someplace that others didn't expect - and put others at risk. I am constantly asking myself if I am doing everything possible to help others know where I am - and for me, that means using standard entries, good radio calls - and most importantly, keeping my eyes outside and looking for folks who might be where I don't expect them.

Safe flying,

Paul

 

[Brad Gould]

This sort of illustrates my concern with the new Sport Pilot catagory and the light, underequipped aircraft that it will spawn...

The Sport Pilot category will require training and BFRs, which are not required of ultralight pilots. I have nothing against ultralight pilots or flying, but I would expect skills and rule-following to improve as more ultralight pilots get the certificate

That said, I rearely fly where there are ultralights, and I've still seen lots of unusual ways of flying the pattern that required me to leave the pattern and get back in.

Brad

 

[cobra]

I did not mean to criticize anyone's plane or equipment situation, other than I personally believe any pilot who flies around other planes should have at least radio communications and probably a transponder. I think it is important to remember that there are a lot of other aircraft types that are covered under Sport Pilot, not only fixed wing lsa's.

Could be wrong, but I believe Sport Pilot was made primarily to put some level of control over the "rogue" uncontrolled motor-powered aircraft types that sprang up around extreme sports circles (sport parachuting, hang gliding, etc), and probably not conceived originally to include "antique" fixed wing planes or the new crop of expensive foreign LSA's comming forth to fill the loophole.

I came up thru a gyroplane phase before I discovered Vans designs- there, it is very common to fly around in circles, close to airports, like a cloud of knats, with little/ no equipment and limited personal protection other than a helmet and sunglasses- no compass, no air speed indicator, no altitude indicators, radios, lights, etc. Gyros are great fun, affordable, noisy, extremely maneuverable, and slow. Gyro pilots love to bob and weave around; they are often blind (or oblivious) to other fast-moving traffic nearby. Powered parachutes and motor gliders also fall into that category.

Weight is at a premium in rotorcraft, as it is in all LSA designs required to stay under regulated weight limits. I have a fundamental problem with FAA here, where an arbitrary weight limit provides an incentive to make an aircraft potentially less safe to its pilot, passengers, and anyone nearby. I believe the limits should be based on performance limits or flight privleges, not weight. Minimal training and next to no oversight with drivers licence medicals will only make the situation potentially worse if it catches on.

 

[mikegraycmg]

check ride

I got cut off in the pattern during my private pilot check ride. The examiner was irate and got on the radio and cussed him out. I would have thought it very funny if I hadn't been rather stressed.

 

[DanH]

Avionics will make you safe? Maybe so. Lemme tell you about my scariest airplane ride, ever.

I dropped my L-4 into a neighboring airport (Prattville AL) to see what was going on. One of the locals (who we will call The General, ex USAF, a respected businessman) was working on his White Lightning, and asked if I would like to ride along on a test flight. The subject of the test was an autopilot install. Clear blue day, respected individual, nice airplane, so I said yes.

Ever been in a White Lightning? Very steep windshield rake, no headroom, high glareshield. Frontal visibility is like looking through a tank slit. Only place you can really see is out is your own side and straight up...but not down (the wing) or to the front.

The General blasts off, climbs to 2000 ft, and flips on the autopilot. From that point forward, I swear he never looked outside. He commanded a heading of about 060, which took us right through the approach path to the military runway at Maxwell (6 miles to the right)....while he yaked at me about his new toy and played with the display.

In no time we arrived at the State Field, about 4 miles NNW of the Wetumpka airport, a huge cotton patch owned by the Prison System (the farmers wear white, if you get my drift). Local pilots use it as a low altitude play and test area when the prisoners are locked down, because it has two wide, graded dirt roads subdividing the field into four sections (nice emergency runways), and of course no houses or cars. Despite local custom and probable traffic, the General just zips through, head down, programming the avionics to intercept a DME circle approach back to Prattville. I'm going nuts trying to see out of the tank slit, and dropping hints like "Sure is a nice day, I'll bet everybody is flying." This gets me a dirty look; I had interrupted the General's monologue about the wonderfulness of DME arc capability.

The thrills were not over yet. After arcing back to Prattville the General sees fit to acknowledge the world outside. He keys the mike and announces "Prattville traffic, White Lightning XXX from the north for a left downwind, 27". He then proceeds to dive from 2K AGL to pattern altitude while crossing midfield and turning left onto the downwind, blind as a dog in a rabbit hole.

Fly with the General again? Never. Fact is, if I hear him make a CTAF call, I'm leaving the airport vicinity. That may be the single best reason why he should have a radio and a transponder.

Dan Horton

 

[Naked Lady]

I get asked why during a climb, I'll put the nose down, or when in level flight, I'll bank/ turn/look see...it's 'cause I get that feeling that there's a UFO being magnetized to my aircraft . Latest close encounter just this weekend over Central Valley at 3500 in our Zenith 801 to avoid a Cessna playing. As I dropped down and right, I watched the sudden startled movement as he realized his close encounter. See and avoid. It's hard to know what frequency the other guy is on when there are a number of nearby airports. I'm sure I've been the UFO also. Fly safe.

 

[JimWoo50]

Doggone shadow scared me

Was flying along on a 500ft pipeline patrol watching the right of way and my shadow on the ground when all of a sudden the shadow of a jetliner flew right into my shadow. Scared the heck out of me and made me a believer in watching where I was going. Previous poster mentioned that every airport had a pilot who taxiied and or flew like he owned the joint and this reminded me of an incident in Bloomington Indiana a while ago. I was about 200 yards out at about 50 ft when a guy in a Lock Haven yellow Piper Cub looked up at me ( I was close enough to see him and his pax in there) and taxiied right out front of me and initiated his take off obviously not caring a whit that he had just cut me off. I taxiied in for fuel and inquired from the teenager manning the pumps who that was and did he have a problem? The teen replied "he thinks he owns the joint and he does stupid stuff like that all the time".

 

[painless]

I will chime in here and further emphasize that just having a radio, and using it, does not insulate you from potential harm.

Case in point. I was out doing touch and goes trying to rack up phase I time on a CAVU, no wind day over the friendly skies of MNM. Pick your runway type of day. I had been announcing my locations while in the pattern for runway 21 during all three of my T&G's. As I announced left base for 21, I hear a Cherokee announce that it was on short final for runway 3!!!! Yup.....opposite runway to 21. This was the first and only "announcement" that I heard coming from that aircraft.

Needless to say, I throttled up and announced going around on 21 (rather sternly) and as I passed the midpoint of the runway, there was the Cherokee on landing roll-out.

So I land and there is the aircraft in question parked at the fuel depot. Having had a chance to cool down, I politely asked the pilot if she had heard my announcing for 21, like I was concerned that my equipment was not working (which I knew darn well it was). Her pax chimes in and says something like, yeah, I thought I heard somebody out there.

Sheesh!!

Then the pilot says that they were listening to Green Bay departure. I almost said, lady, this ain't Green Bay!!!! But I am too polite I guess....


It all illustrated to me that announcing on the radio and being in the spot you are supposed to be can sometimes mean diddly. Be alert, and PLAN for somebody or something messing up your approach and landing. BE READY.



Regards,

 

[Mike S]

10 rules of avaition.

One of the rules I have posted in the hanger reads----

"Airplanes fly beacuse of Bernouli, not Marconi".

The weak link in radio communication is often holding the mic.

Mike

 

[L.Adamson]

It all illustrated to me that announcing on the radio and being in the spot you are supposed to be can sometimes mean diddly. Be alert, and PLAN for somebody or something messing up your approach and landing. BE READY.
Regards,

Yep, but at the same time, the "other" pilot's use of the radio, sure got your attention!

L.Adamson -- I still advocate having radios!

 

[David-aviator]

I get asked why during a climb, I'll put the nose down, or when in level flight, I'll bank/ turn/look see...it's 'cause I get that feeling that there's a UFO being magnetized to my aircraft . Latest close encounter just this weekend over Central Valley at 3500 in our Zenith 801 to avoid a Cessna playing. As I dropped down and right, I watched the sudden startled movement as he realized his close encounter. See and avoid. It's hard to know what frequency the other guy is on when there are a number of nearby airports. I'm sure I've been the UFO also. Fly safe.

Excellent post!

If you don't believe in UFO's, fly like a WWII fighter pilot over enemy territory where everyone is armed and looking for a kill - never straight and level more than 30 seconds, agressively scan your blind spots so as to see before being seen, and be ready for quick evasive action. Never rely on radio reports, they are inconclusive and can be a trap. Many a smart enemy will be silent just to nail your butt when you think all is well.

Staying alive can be fun. Keep the eye balls moving, don't become fixated visually on anything, and never forget you are a moving target and so is every other pilot.

dd

Flew yesterday and managed to avoid at least a dozen enemy including 2 hot air ballons - rather like WWI this time. What a beautiful day, probably the last of year.

 

[praterdj]

At that point, drop full flaps and turn base abeam of the runway, and drop it on the end of the runway before the Bonanza driver can even get his gear down! I hate to admit that I've done that before to someone who cut me off in the pattern. I cleared the runway before he even turned final. He never said a word.

Believe me that's what I wanted to do and I certainly understand why you did it but I decided not to. In my mind, and others who might have witnessed, I felt it would have made sink to his level. But I was really tempted to wait for him at the pumps. There, outside the plane, I wouldn't be bound to my code of the air. While in an airplane I don't do anything intentional to provide a negative image of pilots. I try to separate myself from those idiots and hold myself to a higher standard. However....If I had been 50 AGL, 200' out and the guy taxied out and took off like mentioned in the post above... I would have met him at the airport and THEN I WOULD HAVE CALLED THE FAA with his tail number. I don't want to sound like I'm looking for a scrape...just the opposite I go way around trying to avoid one but if someone jeopardizes my life then I react differently. Sad thing is I do this for fun...and it is great...it's unfortunate that we occasionally run into those with their own agendas.

I would simply encourage everyone to be considerate of everyone else. If someone makes an honest mistake we must learn from it but realize everyone at some point will make a mistake. Myself included. I remember a day at DTO in Denton, I was on downwind after a touch and go, I looked to my left and found a 150 at my altitude but really wide on downwind. I asked their intentions and agreed to maneuver to come behind. By flying such a large pattern I had unintentionally cut inside of them. I flew to the airport when they announced they were departing the pattern and went to their hangar and apologized.

 

[the_other_dougreeves]

This sort of illustrates my concern with the new Sport Pilot catagory and the light, underequipped aircraft that it will spawn
...
I did not mean to criticize anyone's plane or equipment situation, other than I personally believe any pilot who flies around other planes should have at least radio communications and probably a transponder. I think it is important to remember that there are a lot of other aircraft types that are covered under Sport Pilot, not only fixed wing lsa's.

Could be wrong, but I believe Sport Pilot was made primarily to put some level of control over the "rogue" uncontrolled motor-powered aircraft types that sprang up around extreme sports circles (sport parachuting, hang gliding, etc), and probably not conceived originally to include "antique" fixed wing planes or the new crop of expensive foreign LSA's comming forth to fill the loophole.

Some interesting points here.

Every new LSA I've seen has a COMM and XPDR. I suspect that all new SEL LSA will have them; powered 'chutes might not. Many LSA will be better equipped than the average training spam can. I suspect that most LSA will be at least /U and that most new SP will never have intentionally flown without a XPDR or COMM.

I wasn't involved in (much less aware of) the LSA / SP rules at all, but from what I understand, it was always designed for many types of new and existing airplanes. Making "fat" ULs leagal was just one of the aims. I think that lots of people were hoping that new airplanes would be made as a result of the LSA rule. Many LSA candidates were already flying here in the US prior to the LSA / SP rule being finalized.

 

[Davepar]

...I announced that I was going to over-fly the runway from the west to the east at pattern alititude and that I would be entering left downwind for 18...

Not to nit-pick, but isn't it better to overfly a few hundred feet above pattern altitude? When I was reading the story, I thought that's where things were going to go wrong.

 

[jcoloccia]

Incidentally, there are no further details but apparently a couple of airliners clipped wings on the ground at Newark just a little bit ago. From the news reports at the moment, it doesn't seem to be too serious, thank God.

What's amazing about this, though, is that just a few days ago, a 757 landed on a TAXIWAY at Newark. The taxiway's something like 70ft wide and 4000' long. Except for that whole missed the runway thing, it must have been a pretty nice landing!

Just goes to show that all the controllers, pilots, FO's, radars, radios and GPS's in the world ain't gonna stop a boneheads from doing bonehead things.

This just seemed appropriate for this thread, somehow...

 

[sportpilot]

file a report

Jerry,
Did it scare you enough to file an incident report?

 

[L.Adamson]

Just goes to show that all the controllers, pilots, FO's, radars, radios and GPS's in the world ain't gonna stop a boneheads from doing bonehead things.

I'm truly convinced that if a full blown airport diagram pops up on the MFD, or Garmin 496; then some of these pilots landing on taxiways, landing at the wrong airport or taking off on the wrong runway, might just finally notice.

It's just that most pilots, simply don't have this technology.

 

[Low Pass]

Interesting! I do believe there are quite a few aviation bigots out there!! I know everyone has a different idea of what's safe and what ought to be included in the minimum equipment list. But hearing all these subjective judgements about other's and their flying craft of choice just strikes heavily of smugness.

You will never hear me complain about any general type of aircraft. You will hear me complain about people flying B-52 patterns in C-152's and Bonanza pilots who neither call on the radio or know how to maneuver in anything close to a standard pattern. But most of these are moot points when I'm flying an RV. Like someone said earlier, I can - when announced - take a short turn to final and be turned off before B-52 boy turns final. Can out maneuver & outclimb Biff in his Bonanza. So I'm good.

Bottom line is we GA pilots in particular better darn well be tollerant of other GA variations. Without sticking together, the ATA, FAA and military/gub'ment will beat us into something much less than we are now.

Yes - good debate on safety and one of the primary laws of aviation - SEE AND AVOID! But don't denegrate anyone who flies a powered parachute, ultralight, gyrocopter, or Cub! It's all of us that make up GA.

PS - I once flew my former J-3 in the pattern doing touch and goes at a Class D airport with a 767 *safely*, and I didn't even have a transponder! Oh, the humanity?!