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MikeR

Well Known Member
This is a serious concern, so please no wise-cracks.... My dad is almost 60 and loves to fly. He's flown with me and with his friends a number of times. While never formally trained, he's a natural in the cockpit. He normally makes all the radio calls, flys the route and takes off and lands about half of the time. The only reason he doesn't log the training is that I'm not a CFI.

He's now decided that he has the time and money at this point in his life and really wants to get his license. He's found an instructor and will probably end up buying a plane as I did to get his license. (I always had a nice plane to train in that way without paying to fly junk).

The problem is this: MY MOTHER! She's a sweet lady and normally pretty level-headed, but dead set against GA flying. She wasn't real happy about me flying in the Navy, isn't real happy about me flying on a private level, but accepts it. She has laid down the law with my dad and told him that she will not approve of him training. She blames it on the safety aspect, but this must be just an excuse as he's driven race cars up to 200mph for as long as I can remember, raced boats when I was a kid and flys for business 10-15 times per month.

Can anyone offer advice which can be used to persuade my mother to give my dad his "kitchen pass"?
 
Mike,

That is a hard one...

She may be so set in her ways that she will never allow it. On the other hand, your father sounds like he is close to retirement. Once he is in her house full time, she might just look for ways to get him out from under foot.

Having done the race car thing, I find flying has fewer risks and when compared to boat racing (offshore?) it is positively pedestrian.

One thing I have found about wives and flying. They see you at home, trip over stuff, jab your hand with a screw driver, go to the mall while driving like a nut and they translate all that stuff into "you" as a pilot and it conjures up an image they are unwilling to accept.

Best of luck with this. Please let us know how it comes out.
 
As a CFI, I have seen this before. In many cases there is an underlying issue(s) that is unresolved and the no flying ultimatum is just a manifestation of these issues.

Try to help your father find out as much as possible about what the real concern(s) is...and try to address it.

YMMV
 
Kitchen Pass

Kitchen Pass? Now I know your an AD flyer.

Dont act like this is a safe sport and try to convince her how safe flying is. Those that say flying is safer than driving fail to note that we dont stop driving just because we choose to fly, this is an added risk in our lives.

List out the flying risks to your family and most importantly how you intend to mitigate them.

ie. Dad's vision isnt 20/15 but we are getting a traffic avoidance system to ensure he is safe

Dads reflexes arent as fast as they used to be so we promise never to fly with more than 10mph Xwind.

The majority of accidents are from untrained or unproficient pilots flying in bad weather, dad wont do that.

I guess what it comes down to is acknowledging her fears as real and relevant and that you take them serious and have thought through them well enough to address them one by one without being asked, rather than talking her out of her fears.

Good luck bud
 
Whole plane chute?

If safety is really the underlying issue, maybe a plane with an emergency chute might make her feel better. I know this rules out an RV but sometimes you gotta compromise.
 
rv9aviator; said:
If safety is really the underlying issue, maybe a plane with an emergency chute might make her feel better. I know this rules out an RV but sometimes you gotta compromise.
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Doesn't necessarily rule out an RV. I met the co-founder of the ballistic chute company and he plans on putting a chute in the -7 he's building.

As to the original message. Does your Mom have a fear of flying? Often people transfer their own views of life onto others, including fears. It would explain why 200 mph racing doesn't bother her but flying does. Well, you'd have to find out why she doesn't like flying if that's the case. Actually a dislike or even fear of flying is normal. I know a guy who has done crazy-dangerous white water rafting but is terrified of small planes.
 
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Mom's fears

Oddly enough, my mom does not have a fear of flying (commercial). For the longest time, she was scared to death when my dad and I would take to the racetrack. After time, she accepted it and will now even go to watch. We still can't get her on the track and she's still nervous when we drive (but then so am I). My hopes are that she will eventually begin to accept him flying. She has no problem with him flying with me, so the next logical step is for her to be comfortable with him flying with an instructor. I think I have her talked into flying with me next month. I will NOT take the RV, but rather the Bonanza or even borrow my buddy's 172. I'm hoping a nice, scenic flight at 3000' will calm her nerves. Maybe I can even get her to take the controls for a while too.

Thanks for all of your help. By the way, Dad's looking to buy a Beechcraft Sport (B23) with the 160 hp lyco to learn in. He likes the low wing and that's a pretty solid training platform in my mind.
 
I learned in a sport

I got my ticket in a Sport. Flies like a baby bonanza...very easy. Only problem is the nose wheel drops like a stone on landing if you dont get it right, leading to some bouncing. Also had to laugh a couple times when the sport just couldnt keep up with traffic...it aint no speed demon.

Warrior is alot easier to learn how to land if you want a low wing.
 
Life is Too Short

Life is too short! And to get the most out of life, it is important to do the things that you really enjoy before the personal Hobbs meter stops.

I first started flying around 18, but had to quit because my family was broke. When I was finally out of college, married, and making some good money, I starting my flying lessons again. My wife, unfortunately, threw a fit about the lessons, (I was close to soloing before she found out), and I spent the next week on the couch. I didn?t fly again for almost 20 years.

Then I realized how important it is to reach ones goals and get the most out of life. So I started my lessons again, (told the wife AFTER I soloed), and completed my PPL. A few months after I got my PPL, my daughter mentioned that my wife was secretly very proud that I had accomplished my goal.

So have him go for his medical first, to be sure everything is OK. Then have him put his foot down, and start taking lesson. Oh, just say to your Mom that he?s golfing ;)

Also, take a look at the Grummans, there are a bunch of very good ones out there and they fly similar to RV?s (I?ve been told). Just join the Grumman Gang and ask who is selling. Or if you have the money, they are starting the production of Tigers again this summer.
 
MikeR; said:
I think I have her talked into flying with me next month. I will NOT take the RV, but rather the Bonanza or even borrow my buddy's 172. I'm hoping a nice, scenic flight at 3000' will calm her nerves. Maybe I can even get her to take the controls for a while too.
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I have some modest advice from years of experience with a reluctant wife and 70+ Young Eagle kids.

  • Don't insist that a person fly with you, but simply make the offer known. Most people don't like flying or airplanes, especially "little airplanes".
  • Low wing might be better than high wing. Something to do with looking down and seeing something there, rather than empty air and far away earth.
  • Half or more of the kids and adults I fly really don't want to touch the controls, but genuinely enjoy seeing the different view. So again, don't push that, simply make the offer available.
  • Absolutely no unusual flying at all: turns beyond standard rate, upsy-downies, don't demonstrate stalls, etc. Don't try to sell how safe everything is; they will make up their own mind from your attitude and behavior as pilot. Oh, do announce power changes a few seconds ahead of them, both takeoff and landing. More than one pax has asked me if everything is alright when I've pulled power in the pattern for landing.

Good luck with it all. I suppose your Mom in the past came to tolerate your Dad's risky activities because she saw how much he liked them? That might be the key here too.
 
Flying newbies

I have taken a ton of kids and adults for their first GA airplane ride.
Most won't want to take the controls. To remedy this I trim carefully and let go, usually after realizing that I am not holding the airplane up with my superhuman skills they will take the controls and drive it around.

It seems to ease the apprehensions when they realize the airplane is perfectly capable of flying on it's own.
 
It's no small thing but if you get your CFI then all those informal hops together can quietly get logged. He could even pay for your CFI and then you train him for free and he ends up paying about the same maybe.???

Mom might even go along with you as his instructor easier than a stranger if/when you tell her??
 
Survivor's benefits

I'd say first and foremost, make sure that Dad has done all the right things to protect Mom financially if something does happen. The trust and/or will are in good shape. Debts, including mortgage are paid off or she has the means to make it happen. Mom has plenty of survivor's benefits. Medical insurance is assured. That sort of stuff. Most of us don't want to squash our partner's dreams, but we have to protect our own self interests. Once one's personal safety and needs are addressed, it becomes a lot harder for a rational person to try to prevent their partner from doing the things they find important.
 
P.S.

And by all means, don't lie or hide the truth from the poor woman! Even if you Dad choses to defy her wishes, I hope he at least has the honor and guts to do it openly. Geez. Now I know why we hear about so many EX-wives on these forums. :rolleyes:
 
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Amen, on the don't lie part. After 39 years of marrage I can assure you the old saying " it's easier to ask for forgivemess than ask for permission" usually comes from someone who has been divorced at least once. :eek:
 
Middle man

I'm with Louise, don't lie, and do this with your fathers blessing, I'm sure he knows his wife pretty well and if you get in the middle of it and somthing goes sideways you may be blamed. What is between my wife and I is just that between us. I like your approach by getting her up and getting comfortable, most of the fear of flying is from the lack of education. Empower her with your vast knowledge and years of experence and wisdom.

Sounds like you should get him a ground school kit.

Randy
 
Dad's taking Mom to Hawaii next week!

My Dad's taking Mom to Hawaii next week as a surprise. My guess is that the week after that I'll be picking up his new airplane with her blessings. I personally don't think she realizes how important this is to him and the time away from home on vacation will give them the opportunity to discuss that. As for the comments about financial security, I could not agree more. I have always made sure my wife and kids would be well taken care of in my abscence as has my father.

On a sidenote, I finally bought a parachute so I took my -4 up this morning to see how it handled manuevers a little more serious than the stalls and steep turns I'd previously performed. I must say that I'm EXTREMELY impressed with the characteristics of the -4 in spins and recoveries and mild aerobatics. The spin recoveries in the -4 are much more predictable and smooth than anything I've ever flown.
 
Quick suggestion to Mikes Dad!

If you can afford it and can talk her into it, maybe a helicopter tour of the islands? She'd see that not all small aircraft are evil!!
 
I don't think you'd get ME in a helo!

I don't think we can get mom in a helo. In fact, I'm not sure I would get in a helo anymore. I want something with at least somewhat of a glidepath if the engine quits and not 100+ single points of failure (in addition to the Jesus nut). Besides, in the Navy, we joke that helicopters don't REALY fly, the earth just repels them because they're so ugly :)
 
MikeR said:
Can anyone offer advice which can be used to persuade my mother to give my dad his "kitchen pass"?
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Hopefully this doesn't come off as wise crack...

Tell her it will get him out of her hair. My parents have been retired for 14years and when I visit them, I sometimes notice signs of "too much togetherness" when they get into petty arguments. My mother lets my step-dad get away with all his golfing, grocery shopping, Elks club, etc. so she can have her own time. But everyone is different.

Disclaimer: Take the following lightly as you would George Carlin:

Financially, I've come to the conclusion that men and women spend equally if you amortize it over a span of time. Women divide it out and it appears that they spend more but the bottom line is the same. Men spend less frequently but purchase higher ticket items... Flat screens, Sound systems, etc. Women may shop more but the items are not as expensive... shoes, clothes, housing items, etc. In the end, it all balances out.

Just my goofy observation.
 
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