C

cantrma

I'm New Here
Hello, new to VansAirforce but I've been reading it for a long time.

I'm intending to purchase a mid-90's RV-6 about 70-80% completed (wings stabbed in but not plumbed/wired/rigged, engine on airframe, on gear) but it is 1400 miles from home. I'm told the gear outside to outside is 90" and the tail is 111" wide. Question:
1) How do I take the wings off and rig them for transport?
2) How do you get the tail off?
3) Can you easily separate (and rejoin) the vertical and horizontal stabilizers? How?
4) How would you rig wings, fuselage, and tail in a 26' U-Haul?
5) What if I were in a pickup with a large flatbed instead?

I'm already two over for questions, I appreciate any help?

Thanks,
Mark Cantrell
 
cantrma said:
Hello, new to VansAirforce but I've been reading it for a long time.

I'm intending to purchase a mid-90's RV-6 about 70-80% completed (wings stabbed in but not plumbed/wired/rigged, engine on airframe, on gear) but it is 1400 miles from home. I'm told the gear outside to outside is 90" and the tail is 111" wide. Question:
1) How do I take the wings off and rig them for transport?
2) How do you get the tail off?
3) Can you easily separate (and rejoin) the vertical and horizontal stabilizers? How?
4) How would you rig wings, fuselage, and tail in a 26' U-Haul?
5) What if I were in a pickup with a large flatbed instead?

I'm already two over for questions, I appreciate any help?

Thanks,
Mark Cantrell
Click to expand...

Mark, I purchased my 7 and drove to pick it up. Mine was not on the gear. The 26' van was packed, but not full..

I don't know about removal of the wings if the proper bolts are installed and torqued. They were likely hard to install.

Emp - no problems, just some hand tools will remove all the fasteners. VS and HS are match drilled so they can separate, but keep up with fasteners. Loose ones will fall out in transit.

Gear, I would doubt it would fit in the van on gear. Simple measurements will answer that.

The wings (if off) were loaded with leading edge down on piles of pillows and foam rubber. tops were tied to prevent flopping and bungied to the walls with padding.

If the engine is on - it will tip over without emp on!! Keep this in mind for loading and transport.

Just an example, good luck getting your prize home.
 
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Thanks, do the horiz/vert stabilizer separate by drilling rivets or by threaded fasteners?

Thanks again,
Mark
 
cantrma said:
Thanks, do the horiz/vert stabilizer separate by drilling rivets or by threaded fasteners?

Thanks again,
Mark
Click to expand...

No rivets to remove, all bolts, screws, and maybe a clevis pin on the rudder cables---------assuming it was built to plans that is.
 
Hi Mark,

You will not want to transport the plane that far on an open trailer. I have moved a many RV's... lots of moving blankets, foam, rope, straps, cardboard etc... if you want to get home damage free. :)

BTW... did you find someone to look over the plane?
 
No, so I'm coming down tomorrow to look at it myself. My biggest concern is the logs. They're pretty sparse. In the two pages I've seen (single line up to a month apart) there is a reference to getting help from an A&P, which might be a problem. I have heard that the rules changed for kits after some date (this is a 90's kit) but don't know what that means. Does it mean they have to record hours worked (he didn't)? Is there someone I might call when I'm looking at them.

The biggest unknown is the builder log. I just have a lot of scrap aluminum if I can't show it is amateur built (as far as I understand).

Thanks,
Mark
 
cantrma said:
No, so I'm coming down tomorrow to look at it myself. My biggest concern is the logs.
Thanks,
Mark
Click to expand...

Mark, I think your biggest concern should be the quality of the build and if it is built per plans. A 90's kit will have no problems meeting the 51% rule.

But by your questions it is obvious you have no background in RVs. You need an experienced RVer to look at this plane to insure you are not buying a problem.

Rick Gray has been suggested and he would be an excellent choice. Purchasing an RV project without knowing what to look at is a huge risk.

Best wishes, and I hope you have found a good one. If you want to supply a bit of info to the forum about this project it is possible somebody will know something about it.
 
It might be that spending some money NOW to have some experienced local RV builder with some paper work experience and packing into a u haul experience, would be a huge money savings event in the long term. Just saying. Good luck, Larry
 
Biggest risk is probably not the builder logs

It is the quality or lack thereof, of the build. You need someone a.) with experience b.) not trying to complete the sale c.) to help you IF it turns out to be reasonable. With things like,..,where is the,... Do you have,... Why isn't there,.. Well ok,.. But these will have to be re done...won't that be included if you aren't going to build another ,... Recommendations for transport

I would doubt it is going to evaporate while you get proper help lined up. If you really had to you could probably provide earnest money.

Getting proper help now is one of the best investments you could make. Easily cover VAF dues for a long time,... And gallons of gas once you have something flying. If you don't think so,... Look closer on some of the posts here and how many planes (flying or projects) they looked at before buying

Good luck

P.s. If it does look good,.. Ask him to sign a statement as to what he did, and if any others, were involved and compensated. (And get copies of pictures he may have)

P.s. Ps. Looking back,...i don't get the warm fuzzies reading things like wings stab,(but not plumbed) engine hung, 70% done and 90s airplane.... Heads up,.. Get a deal,.. Don't be the deal
 
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Thanks for the advice. I've had earnest money on this plane for a week or so. I'm where the plane is today and have gone through the books and looked carefully at the plane. There is an A&P here that has looked at it as well. I'm satisfied with the plane.

I'm concerned about the builder log. It is very sparse and doesn't list any hours. There are only 40 entries, most covering a month or more worth of work. Separate from the book, there are perhaps 100 pictures showing almost all aspects of the build (particularly the tail/wings/fuselage, nothing for the engine/avionics) that clearly show the build and often the builder in a home garage/shop. Do the pictures mitigate the builder log? How difficult is it to satisfy a DAR for a kit sold in 1997?

Thanks,
Mark
 
cantrma said:
I'm concerned about the builder log. It is very sparse and doesn't list any hours. There are only 40 entries, most covering a month or more worth of work. Separate from the book, there are perhaps 100 pictures showing almost all aspects of the build (particularly the tail/wings/fuselage, nothing for the engine/avionics) that clearly show the build and often the builder in a home garage/shop. Do the pictures mitigate the builder log? How difficult is it to satisfy a DAR for a kit sold in 1997?

Thanks,
Mark
Click to expand...

I bought a project also, not a lot of documentation either--------I discussed it with the FAA inspector prior to my inspection, and he was not concerned.

I would suggest you contact Mel, Vic, Gary or one of the other DAR types here and see what they say. Better still would be contacting a DAR or FAA inspector in your own area.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/member.php?u=1224

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/member.php?u=1415

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/member.php?u=421
 
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Mark,

If you are satisfied with the kit, the rest really doesn't matter. Get to know the plans, build manual as if you were starting from scratch. Verify the build as of the status today on your own looking at what has been worked on and/or completed. Log your time, take your pics, build on and you will be just fine. :)
 
cantrma said:
Thanks for the advice. I've had earnest money on this plane for a week or so. I'm where the plane is today and have gone through the books and looked carefully at the plane. There is an A&P here that has looked at it as well. I'm satisfied with the plane.

I'm concerned about the builder log. It is very sparse and doesn't list any hours. There are only 40 entries, most covering a month or more worth of work. Separate from the book, there are perhaps 100 pictures showing almost all aspects of the build (particularly the tail/wings/fuselage, nothing for the engine/avionics) that clearly show the build and often the builder in a home garage/shop. Do the pictures mitigate the builder log? How difficult is it to satisfy a DAR for a kit sold in 1997?

Thanks,
Mark
Click to expand...

Kits sold in the 90's require much more fabrication than the modern snap-together kits :)D). You have nothing to worry about when it comes to at least 51% of the kit being amateur-built. Sounds like the builder info you have will be fine. Pick up where the other builder left off and document as you wish.

Enjoy your project, you have begun a fascinating journey!
 
Thanks guys. I'm new to this so I called a DAR not too far from home. Described the build log and he was reserved. Mentioned the pictures and he asked if each of several stages were represented and he was much less concerned. So I bought the plane and have found my DAR for when the time comes.

It is too wide for a Penske or UHaul 26' truck. My current plan is to:

pull the tail and wings,
remove the gear (conventional) from the engine mount (looks like one bolt and the brake lines and the slide out),
put in 30" or less of 1" rigid conduit (just enough to keep antennas exhaust and strobe off the floor) (it is 1 5/16 OD)
Stick them in a 4x6 (have 1.5 inch butterfly bit) so the conduit won't spread
Put the 4x6 across two used tires as shock absorbers for the 1400 mile trip
Carriage bolt 4x6 to tires
Have a telehandler type forklift rented, pick by engine eye or rig to motor mount
Slide in truck tail first
Strap tail down (assuming it tilts up)
Strap everything side to side and firmly to rear so it won't slide forward when braking.
Have 2 dozen movers blankets for wings, tail, and parts

Sound ok? Does the gear slide out like I think? Improvements?

Thanks for your help,
Mark
 
Mark, You have a lot invested here, your plan sounds good. One area that could be a issue might be the conduit. I overkill things, so you might consider a solid steel bar the correct diameter for the stubby gear legs. Cold rolled would present a smooth contact of the correct diameter and would not have the potential issue of wedging against the ends or damaging the bore. You may already have thought this through with your plan to mount in a cross bar, so it may not be an issue, but there will be a lot of rocking and fore aft wiggling.

Good luck! You will learn a LOT during this build,
 
Moving with a 5'x10' trailer

This photo is of an entire airframe on a 5'x10' trailer. I had to build a platform over the wings for the fuselage to sit on and carry put parts of the tail section and cowl in the explorer, but it all fit. It took all afternoon to pack it but I traveled from Oregon to Colorado with no damage. Have fun with your new project.

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I realize I left this hanging. I hate it when people do that, post a problem or situation and we never know how it resolved.

It turned out the gear did fit in the Penske truck so I brought it home on the front gear in the front and a tire the rear. But I strapped the tailwheel (empennage all off) to both walls and propped the 611 and 612 bulkheads on a used tire I picked up at a tire store. It seemed ok. But like others warned, but I didn't understand at the time, the same bolts hold on the vertical stabilizer and the rear tailwheel mount. Bouncing around back there completely destroyed the bottom of the rear bulkhead. And could have been avoided by simply reinstalling the three bolts (or short bolts) attaching the rear of the tailwheel weldment.

Other than that, the project is satisfactory. I knew most of what I was getting (old engine near overhaul, 1999 steam gauges with VFR GPS and one nav/comm, steam gauge engine instruments) and knew it was far from a showplane. But it has been sound with few airframe repairs/improvements. The canopy was a little bit of a mess and will never have good lines from the windshield to the side of the fuse. But passable. And I may be in a flying plane with cheap paint for under $30K. But will probably need an overhaul in just a few years. I have money set aside for two of (1) glass panel, (2) electronic FI and ignition, or (3) overhaul. We'll see how that works out.

Due to summer work around the place and a heavy workload with night work this fall, I've been too tired to make much progress but the winter looks promising. I live in a pole barn so can work all winter on it in sock feet and use epoxy and paint year round.

Thanks,
Mark
 
Moving RVs

A truck and an open trailer will do fine. Wings are simple to remove with help. Tail feathers are simple to remove with little help. Remove the engine before you load your fuse. I've transported RVs in U-Hauls(Never again) and a pickup/open trailer combination. Planning, common sense and proper supplies(blankets, rachet straps and gorilla tape) have served me well on trips from Colorado, Minnesota, Texas(x4), Michigan, Louisiana, Iowa, Illinois and Virginia, all back to SE Georgia. Many of these were in a Chevy Colorado with a Harbor Freight 4 X 8 trailer.

You can do this without breaking your budget. Great advice here. Take your time and have no fear.
 
rv6 builder near burnet, tx.

Call me @ 512 689 6768. I know a builder that lives within 10 miles of Burnet who would probably help...........
 
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