[Brantel]

I have posted below three versions of a panel. Lets just call these Full IFR, IFR Lite (no such thing I know), and VFR. Depending on how my sourcing of funds works out for this project, I may have to make certain compromises in what I can get. The goal would be to make the layout of the lesser systems upgradable to the original full IFR plan. I also do not want a ton of gear in the lower end panels that would not work in the more advanced system. I understand that this cannot happen completely due to the cost associated with the higher end items. Things like the intercom would be sold and replaced with a true audio panel, the com radio could also be sold for a good part of the entry price.

The audio panel pictured here is just a placeholder for most likely a PMA8000. I already have the portable GPS.

I know the 480 is a great product but I am not interested in investing in an obsolete orphan. So far I have seen no good deals on clearance stock so I don't think many of them are sitting on the shelf.

Panel will be 1.5 to 2" longer than stock so all the switches and engine controls will go down there.

Here is the full up IFR version with AP, price comes in around $28K, full two axis advanced AP:

Here is the IFR Lite version, price comes in around $15.1K, Medium Grade Two axis AP (not shown is the AP74 right below the HS34):

Here is the VFR version, price comes in around $10K, Low End 2 axis AP with integral control only:

Any thoughts on a more cost effective way to do this with the ultimate goal of being able to upgrade to the full platform in the future without tearing the panel apart for each upgrade?

 

[GrayHawk]

xxx SNIP xxx
Any thoughts on a more cost effective way to do this with the ultimate goal of being able to upgrade to the full platform in the future without tearing the panel apart for each upgrade?

Yes, use a modular panel approach (like Affordable Panels or do your own) and plan the wiring for the full IFR from the start.

 

[N941WR]

Brian,

Drop the TT AP head and just go with the Dynon AP.

Don't forget to include space for the switches, that may change your layout some.

I like the idea of using the D120 to display the HSI and EMS info at the same time but isn't really nessary. You can split the D180 to display 1/3 EFIS, 1/3 HSI, and 1/3 EMS info. Truth is, you probably won't do that as the EFIS can display a CDI and glide slope. Still, this is personal preference.

Considering you might wish to upgrade the VFR panel at some point in the future, put the altimeter right under the AS, on the left side and stick the AirGizmo at the top of your radio stack. That will almost exactly match my panel and allow you to grow the panel when you are ready.

As for the autopilot, order and install the pitch bracket now and run the wires back there and out the wing, while you are still building. (Five wires for the Dynon.) It is much easier to do now! Also, for $1,500 you can put in a two axis Dynon AP and control it from the D180. The AP74 or AP76 can be added at any time you wish. The AP76 gives you vertical nav, while running the AP from the D100/D180 gives you course tracking (roll) and altitude hold. A very good deal!

Also, modify the AirGizmo to hold the DB9 connectors for the Dynon's behind your GPS.

 

[N941WR]

Yes, use a modular panel approach (like Affordable Panels or do your own) and plan the wiring for the full IFR from the start.

Having just modified my panel, this is VERY GOOD advice!

The Affordable Panels panel was worth every dime!

 

[Jamie]

Well, one obvious thing to get going quickly is to use the SL-40 instead of the SL-30. They use the same trays and the d-sub connector for the COM side of the SL-30 is the same as the SL-40. So you can completely pre-wire for your SL-30 installation and just install an SL-40 from the get-go. When you get ready to upgrade you just buy the SL-30 and sell the new tray you received with the SL-30 with the SL-40. Also, if you're going with a single COM or NAV/COM I can see no reason to add an $$$ audio panel. I don't have one and don't miss one, although I would recommend a good intercom.

I plan on swapping out my SL-40 for the SL-30 this fall to start my instrument training (don't want to do my training in the HOT Georgia summer).

FWIW, here's my panel:

The 496 was added as an afterthought. I have an Airgizmos dock sitting in my hangar that I may install when I do my annual, but it's low on the priority list. I sort of like the mount I made up.

 

[Brantel]

Bill,

That is not a TT AP head but instead just the ADI for an independant backup AI. I am sold on the Dynon AP as all three versions have at least the two axis setup.

Don't think the Dynon can do 1/3,1/3,1/3 or at least I have never seen that documented anywhere. For the full up system, the HSI offers much more than just the CDI/GS on the PFD page. I will most likely end up with 2/3 efis & 1/3 hsi on the left panel and 1/3 various pages like aux,checklists fuel computer & 2/3 engine monitor on the right panel. Of course all of this is flippable in flight to suit the need.

Since the portable is also my nav source and moving map, I want it under my primary display.

Sold on the AP already.

Thanks for the pointer on the connector in the back of the dock....

 

[DBone]

a couple of thoughts

I'm in the middle of panel planning as well, so these are just a few thoughts off the top of my head. DISCLAIMER: I am IFR rated but have never flown behind a panel that I designed from scratch!

- You didn't leave any room for switches... Are you going to have those on a sub panel that you're not showing in the pics?

- Are you sure you need a high dollar audio panel? Make sure you run through what you gain by adding it. If you want an audio panel, there are much cheaper options than the PMA8000. Look at their web site for more options that may do everything you need without the high end cost.

- You are really skewing things towards single pilot operation. 2 things that jump out at me are your back-up instruments being all the way on the left and the 496 being right in front of you. I think the backups should be where the copilot can see them as well. Whether that's another pilot or an instructor, easily being able to see those backups could help if things go bad. Second, the 496... I do have experience flying behind a 496 and 430 tied together, and I, by far, prefer to enter flight plans and such into the 430. Also, my "copilot" was in charge of music and checking airport weather reports on the 496. On my panel, the 496 will be going in front of the copilot seat.

The panel is small enough that nothing is out of reach for either person, so it's more a matter of ease of use.

 

[Brantel]

Jamie,

Thanks for the input!

No audio panel planned on anything but the full up system with two nav/coms.

Good point on the SL-40 to SL-30 swappable feature. The only problem with this is the SL-40 is $400 more than the A-210.

Your panel is great. Thanks for the input!

 

[Brantel]

Dave,

My actual panel will be 1.5 to 2" longer than stock and all switches and engine controls will go down there.

The audio panel choice may change. This comes as a recommendation from Stein who says it is the best bang for the buck. There are some less expensive models but I want one with high quality audio/intercom and if you look at the ones with good quality audio/intercoms, the price difference is not much between them.

I am the Pilot, most of the time flying by myself or with a non pilot passenger so yep, the panel is all about the left seat. Instructors will have no problem working with it this way because like you say, the cabin just aint that wide. I want the portable in front of me because it is my primary moving map. These things have terrible off axis visibility so I don't want it in the stack.

Thanks for the input!

 

[Rick_A]

Behind the panel space

Don't forget to think about the space behind the panel. The AS & Alt need at least 4"+1" for the Pitot/Static lines. The ADI needs 6" with the D-sub connected. The ADI "fills the space" more behind the panel because it's box shape. It's surprising how crowded things get behind the panel when you start to put in all the wiring.

 

[N941WR]

...Don't think the Dynon can do 1/3,1/3,1/3 or at least I have never seen that documented anywhere.

My mistake, you are correct, they do not do 1/3, 1/3, & 1/3.

One other option is to go with the D10 EMS and mount it on the right side as I did. (Do what you want, not what others want you to do, including me.) You can either flush mount the D10 EMS it or use the standard hole pattern.

It will fit nicely just to the right of the right rib and gives the passenger their own EFIS display, if needed. That will give you more room on the left side for other goodies, allow you to display the HSI on the D100, and optionally display the engine info there as well.

The nice thing about the Dynon EMS is even if you don't have it displaying engine info, it continues to monitor all the parameters and should something go out of bounds, you get a message on the bottom of the screen.

One other thing, keep your traditional airspeed gauge in the upper left corner of your panel. This is where most people look when landing and it is easy to see and interpret.

That said, if I were building today, I would probably not install the steam gauges as the Dynon works so well. However, they don't cost or weight much and the installation is very easy.

PS. Spend just as much time working on your switch plasement as you are on the gauges, radios, etc. Being able to reach a switch w/o looking is critical. Or in the case of the flaps, getting to that switch w/o removing your hand from the throttle and/or having to switch hands to turn on a landing light. You get the idea.

 

[N999BT]

think about failures

Brian,

I just went through this on my -4 (the upgrade to IFR). You need to think about what you are going to do with any single failure, in the soup, in turbulence, and trying to read an approach chart.

In my mind, the first backup for the efis in a very responsive RV is the autopilot. So, as has been discussed elsewhere, if you have an iced pitot, you cannot rely on the Dynon. Push the autopilot button until you get your head straight. And cover the efis with a post it note so you won't look at it. And be sure that the autopilot is totally independent of the EFIS.

 

[Brantel]

Life takes a tangent!

Well,

Got home Wednesday night and find out my wife and I are having another baby! Needless to say, this was not part of the plan but seems it is God's plan for us so my airplane must take on a different scope....

No way am I giving up nor do I want it to take 10 more years for wheels up so here is the new plan. Used engine and basic VFR only panel.

I am pretty much settled on this equipment for the following reasons:

The D180 seems to be the best value for a EFIS/EM when concidering the fact that you can get a 2 axis AP for 1500 more. I also get the AOA for free.

I want at least a full nav com due to the fact that with this and my existing 296, I can do "practice" ADF/VOR/LOC/ILS based approaches to stay current with my instrument ticket.

I want the HS34 for the fact that it makes working with the D180 a breeze as far as setting alt, switching nav sources for the HSI, working the HSI etc. The HS34 will also give audio alerts and pass thru the auto frequency loading to the SL30 from the 296.

I want the AP74 because it does many things to make the built in AP usable.

The backup instruments are there just in case the screen goes black. Don't need anything else, just look out the window and listen.

The 296 I already have.

The SL30 because there is no other option for a Nav/Com that works so well with the D180's HSI.

The transponder is also about the best value for an all digital model.

The intercom is well.... the intercom.

I will be adding an annunciator strip ALA Ironflight between the SL30 and the intercom.

The panel will be 1.5-2" longer than stock and that is where most of the switches and engine controls will go.

I am pretty much settled on this equipment. Any thoughts on the layout and or any more cost effective solutions keeping these requirements in mind?

Total cost for what is shown here less the 296 plus the 2 servos is $13,102

 

[N999BT]

Congratulations!

Congrats! Life is not the stuff we have, its the loved ones around us. Enjoy the new life in your family!

 

[N941WR]

Congrats on the new baby!

Brian that is good news.

Good choice on the Dynon expansion modules, they are a great addition to an already great product.

Regarding the intercom, make sure it is a stereo unit and put a plug on the panel so you can use your MP3 player of choice.

Ironflight's annunciator strip is cool but you don't need it with the Dynon. The reason being is that anything that goes out of bounds will put a red strip across the bottom of the unit and a tone in your headset. The only annunciator light I put in my panel was a green LED light top dead center to let me know when I've left the fuel pump on, or off, when getting ready to takeoff or land.

Call Dynon and see if you can buy the pitch servo installation kit. I highly recommend riveting that thing in place now, along with running the five required wires. Installing it after you are finished is a real pain. I would also run the five wires down the right wing and leave them in place. The roll bracket is easy enough to install later as it just bolts in.