Started out life with it in 2010. Been using it since with no issues. Stock system with the exception of braided teflon lines.
I've been using Royco 782 but I am considering moving to M1 ATF, just due to the ease of aquiring from the local Autozone vs ordering it in.
Has anyone gone to M1 ATF without changing all the seals in the entire system without issue?
Tram .... I too wanted a brake fluid that can be easily located in time of dire need. I decided on using Amsoil ATF fluid because it has a slightly higher flash point than the Mobile 1 (over 450* if memory serves me).... during a trip if a top-off is necessary, Moble 1 ATF can be sourced at any auto parts store and will mix well with the Amsoil. Been using the ATF fluid in the brake system for 9 months without any issues .... brakes are nice and solid.
Happy flying,
I don't understand this fascination with auto parts store supplies, my guess is one could find standard 5606 at practically every airport in the world, ATF well not so much.
I don't understand this fascination with auto parts store supplies, my guess is one could find standard 5606 at practically every airport in the world, ATF well not so much.
I don't understand this fascination with auto parts store supplies, my guess is one could find standard 5606 at practically every airport in the world, ATF well not so much.
What you say is true Walt and certainly holds a lot of weight coming from you.
The issue some of us want to avoid, if possible, is being stranded some late afternoon at a smaller airport that looks like a ghost town (which many do these days). Even at larger fields 5606 has to be ordered at times if the FBO is out of stock ... as a friend of mine recently experienced.
We are both thinking alike.
snip
Would love to see those using ATF run some tests.
1. Can ATF and 5606 or Mil-PRF-83282 be mixed together?
2. How well do O-Ring seals & Viton seals hold up long term with ATF?
3. What changes to the properties of seals with long term exposure to ATF?
Inquiring minds want to know.
PS: I use the 83282 (Royco 782) exclusively, I won't personally service an airplane with ATF.
Outside of "I won't use it.." would you be willing to explain why you see it as an issue?
You bet, because it's not an approved fluid by any of the brake or airframe manufactures that I'm aware of (please correct me if I'm wrong).
And I freely admit to not being as smart as the manufactureres of these systems so I tend to go with their recommendations.
I'm not one to be overly concerned about lawsuits and such, but if it ever came up it would be awfully hard to explain why you elected to use transmission fluid in a brake system rather than the recommended fluid or an approved substitute.
I like the higher flash point protection. Along with the Mobil 1 ATF, I use viton o rings in the calipers for increased temperature protection. Neither one should be required, HOWEVER there have been a few Cirrus SR 22 wheel fire incidents where and extended long taxi in very strong X winds required extended brake application that compromised the buna N orings with a wheel pant fire resulting when the 5606 leaked onto the hot disks.
Do your own research carefully but as an experimental you can decide accordingly.
YMMV
I am just curious. My -7 is not flying yet. Do you have to add fluid out on a trip very often? In 5000 hrs of flying a pretty good assortment of homebuilts and certified planes I cannot ever remember needing to add brake fluid when I was on the road.
notice none of the brake manufacturers have chimed in here?
To claim that it is not safe because it is not "certified" is cowardice, done perhaps only to prop up ones own choice or to try to promote some kind of air of superior knowledge where none otherwise exists. Certified does not mean superior; if it did, we'd all be flying factory built aircraft which come complete with certified brake fluid.
Walt and others engaging in the FUD around lawsuits and such seem to be doing so out of ignorance - does it really pass the smell test that a lawsuit would zone in on the brake fluid while at the same time ignoring the amateur built status and use of uncertified parts *provided by the kit manufacturer*?
I've been using Mobil ATF in my brakes for the last 5 years and 900+ hours. No problems. It has a higher flash point than 5606 - I had a much harder time inducing ATF to combustion than 5606 when I proved this for myself. It is compatible with the standard seals etc no only by specification but also by empirical evidence. In the world of experimental aviation, this is perhaps one of the "safest" experiments I have performed.
Hmm, never been called a coward before for sharing my opinion. Personally I don't really care what you think or prefer to use in your own system, but recommending it to others just because you think it ok is just plain wrong IMO.
I don't believe I ever said anyone should use any specific thing, only that I use ATF. I also don't pretend to be morally superior by claiming to use something just because it's certified and I don't try to install fear of lawsuits for using something else.
there's really no good reason not to use what the brake manufacturers recommend.
recommending it to others just because you think it ok is just plain wrong IMO.
Neither Van's nor any brake manufacturer I'm aware of has tested or approves using ATF in their brake systems, but I guess you're just smarter than they are.
Until they do, thank you very much but I'll stick with the "approved" fluids.
For what its worth: It was years ago, but I once spent days replacing parts and rebuilding the brake system on a Cherokee 6 that had been operated for a couple months with automotive (Dot 3) brake fluid. Many of the ?O? rings were very soft and gummy...