Geico266

Well Known Member
Anyone own / recommend a mill drill?

I'm looking into one for the shop. I would use it for the airplane build of course, but mostly for repairs around the ol farmstead (and hanger). I'm looking at an Enco, Jet, or Grizzly. Anyone have any history with these brands? I've used Enco stuff before.

Can anyone recommend a brand? What features you like? Automatic feed? etc. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
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Hi Larry,

I have one and they're all made by one Chinese outfit called Rong-Fu. Mine is a RF-30. I picked mine up used (barely) for $400, it originally was purchased from a local machine tool co. called Wholesale Tool www.wttool.com. I also have a Bridgeport Series 1 CNC and two lathes. :D I can't get enough of this stuff.

Mine's got a 2hp and 30" table, and is suprisingly accurate, within a tenth across the table. But if taking heavy cuts on steel the table needs to be locked down because the screws have a bit of lash.

If you get a new one you might be $2500+ in the hole if you get a digitial readout, vise, stand, etc. Might be better off looking for a used Bridgeport locally that may have this stuff included.
 
Thanks for the replies!

Bob, how do you run 3 phase electrical in a residential setting? I would love an old Bridgeport, but they are 3 phase.
 
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I agree with you about the Rong Fu mill. I make my living in a machine shop and am buying a Rong Fu mill for my airplane factory :D because it is small and can moved much easier than a Bridgeport style machine. I would buy a good used Bridgeport size machine if the weight and size are no problem. You can do a lot more with a full size mill. You should be able to get a used full size mill for $3,000. Another plus about the a small mill is it can run on single phase power, but a phase converter is easy to set up as well. My whole machine shop runs on rotary phase converters.
 
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Several companies have phase converter solutions...some are even affordable. They take in 1-phase voltage and output 3-phase voltage.

One of the items you need to know about the equipment you want to power is (other than voltage level) is it 3-phase Delta, or three-phase Wye?

Google search will throw up a number of companies, and if you add the "info" term in the search, you have more to choose from.

Also, a trip to the local magazine store will reveal power converter adds in the "machinist-type" monthlies.
 
Hi Larry,

I have one and they're all made by one Chinese outfit called Rong-Fu. Mine is a RF-30. I picked mine up used (barely) for $400, it originally was purchased from a local machine tool co. called Wholesale Tool www.wttool.com.

You stole that! Yikes! :eek: I want one!
 
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I have a question for Bob. Will the VFD let you vary the spindle speed or is it just for converting single phase to three phase? I have looked into buying a VFD but is a large unit to run several machines on and costs $5,000.
Thanks

Edit: I guess I should have read the post and understood what I read. Sorry
 
If you keep an eye out on craigslist, you will eventually run into a BP Series one with a J head, which has pulleys and belts you have to manually change to change the speed. I think for simplicity the J head with a VFD is hard to beat. My CNC has a variable speed head with many more parts in the head, and I am just putting it back together now as part of a major overhaul.

There are many BP clones out there that are pretty good, just keep your eye on craigslist and you'll find one close eventually. Just have machinist go with you to look at it to make sure you don't get a machine that's got issues. A worn out machine can be gotten for cheaper, and likely for a home shop a worn machine usually is good enough.
 
Thanks for the replies!

Bob, how do you run 3 phase electrical in a residential setting? I would love an old Bridgeport, but they are 3 phase.

There are single phase, 240 volt Bridgeports out there. Don't know how many, but a friend just found a decent one for under $2k.
 
Now that we know the size is not a problem you might look for a step pulley Bridgeport type mill and buy the VFD that Bob has. The variable speed machines will cost more and is not needed with the VFD. I am going to order a VFD for a Jet milling machine Monday that is hard to change the belt for speed changes. Thanks Bob!:)
 
Lots of Chinese junk out there

Larry, be REAL careful with anything made + engineered totally in China. I had a Chinese mill/lathe combo machine a while back. The spindle had over .005 runout in it; the mill platform had a gross amount of play in the ways and it couldn't be rebuilt to save my life. Sold the whole piece of junk for $500 with all accy's. Not saying its all landfill, but just be VERY careful with the Chinese stuff. Get LOTS of info first, and be ready to use the warranty!

My advise is to buy quality. Get a BP mill and some kind of small toolroom lathe. A good old BP mill and 10 x 36 or so lathe will run circles around any mill/lathe combo. 3 phase converters can be had anywhere - try MSC Direct.

I built my own 3 phase unit out of an old blower motor and some used air conditioning parts. Runs my BP mill and Rockwell lathe great. Plans for a unit such as this can be found with a simple Google search.

Home made 3 phase converter
phaseconverter0001.jpg


Mill & lathe it runs
bridgeport0002.jpg
 
Bill, where do you live, where do you keep the spare key, can I borrow your lift, and what hours are you away from your house? ;)

NICE set up. That's what I'm talking about right there.

Thanks for your input guys and keep them coming. I'm gonna look hard in the next month while my kit is coming.
 
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drill-mill-lathe

I have a Smity 1220XL.

Its been very useful for my -9A build.

Making spacers (acurately) is a breeze.

My $0.02

Dave
Finishing up the fuse
 
Personally, i would stay away from the imported mill dirll stuff. The quality and workmanship is poor to bad. I would keep looking for a Bridgeport or equivalent machine. You can often find them on Ebay, Craigslist or your local newspaper. The three phase motor can be operated with a VFD which converts single phase 220 to variable frequency and voltage three phase or you can use a phase converter.....

Don't forget, you will need tooling, a mill vise, hold downs, parllell bars and some indicators. If you are patient you can snag this stuff at a reasonable cost on the internet, if not be prepared to spend a chunk of change.
 
Grizzly Super X3 G0619

I have been window shopping for a mill also. Link to a web site with reviews of some smaller stuff. I'm think I like the Super X3. Table travel 5.75"x 14.87 variable speed 1HP, 115V, ~400 lbs bench top unit.
http://www.mini-lathe.com/X3_mill/Sx3rvw/SX3-4.htm
You can get it from Grizzly,
http://www.grizzly.com/products/6-x-21-Mill-Drill/G0619
Grizzly has a pretty good reputation for parts and service.
Here is next step up on a dovetail column. I have read in several places to stay away from the round column stuff. Only issue is that the 619 is 3 phase
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Mill-Drill-Tapping-Machine/G0519. Count on another $300 - 500 for vise / clamps / cutters etc
Alan Jackson
RV-9A - Fitting Tip Up Canopy
 
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The guys are right...MOST of the "new" import smaller stuff is not very well made at all, accuracy and castings, ways, grindings, plumb, roundness, etc.. are all things that rarely are correct on a "new" import machine. With a lot of work and time (read $$'s) you can get them up to snuff. That being said, the older RongFu's and much of the older generation stuff out of Taiwan or Japan are indeed quite high quality units - I've owned one for years and just spent yesterday afternoon milling out a battery tray for my Mullicoupe which started out as a solid chunk of 1/2" AL plate (you should see the mountain of chips leftover from removing all that material). I have a bit more work to do on it, but it's coming along nicely! We also use it quite a bit here in our shop for a variety of things and sometimes to cuout hold in instrument panels, pedestals, or make little widgets. A bridgeport is nice to have, and can be found cheaply, but they do take up a good bit of space and remember you still need to get tooling. Many older ones can be had reasonably, but I've seen a ton of them that are quite worn in the leadscrews, quills, knees, etc.. so be very carefull of that. Parts for BP's are easy to get and CNC conversions are easy/cheap. Some of the Import stuff uses odd collets, metric tooling, metric scales, etc..

Anyway, the goldmine of information about anything mill/lathe/cnc is this site:

http://www.cnczone.com

It's like VAF for machinists. Do some searching their on the Grizzly X3, and you'll see that it can be made into quite a good machine, but out of the box results can vary - a lot! Sure, some of the newer round column mills are weak, but just because it has a dovetail "square" column doesn't mean a thing of the ways are junk. A good giveaway is anything that has all sorts of "bells/whistles" that you'll never use. A Tilting head on a small machine like that? All that does is add a spot of weakness and therefore flex/slop into the head. That being said, If I was doing a new CNC conversion I might seriously look at that mil...except I probably can find a good BP for almost the same price (if I had the room)!

For a typical smaller shop you can't beat the good qaulity RongFu's or similar generation of machines. There are some others out there for less money or more money, some smaller and some bigger, but for 90% of what you need it'll do the job. I have a powerfeed on mine and it makes doing repetitive tasks like removing material quite easy. While I'm no expert machinist, I have been around and used many different pieces of equipment from huge multi-axis cnc centers to little cnc mills like my Taig. A small toolroom lathe is also handy. Just beware or the "Horrible Fright" type tools. While cheap, you can read and see stories all over the net of what it takes to get them up to what many people would consider usable. Many of the import units don't even bother to clean out all the sand from the rough casting and paint right over it.

Anyway, below is a quick pic of our little RF and the battery tray I roughed out yesterday. We use that mill a LOT and it's paid for itself many times over. Same with our little CNC taig. I did a lot of homework and played with a lot of machines before I bought what I have. It's good to try and see some in person and perhaps play with them a bit before you commit. In the end, the truth is that most all of the machines (new or old) are going to be better and more accurate than the person using them....just like guns! :)

I'd really like to have Bill's setup, but alas, I just don't have the room!

Cheers,
Stein


rfmill.jpg

battray.jpg
 
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Jet Mills

When I bought my Jet mills they were mostly made in Taiwan and were good machines. They started making them in china at some point and the quality went South or I guess East. I'm not sure how they are today. I have a Sharp mill that is also an OK Asian machine. If you run across a Lagun mill they are good quality. For use in a home shop almost any brand including Grizzly should be fine.
 
What have you guys heard about MSC brand?

Ahhh! I got it. MSC is a generic mill drill branded with another name. I might not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but I'm a fast learner.

****************************************

Thanks guys for all the great input, as always I'm indebted to the great crew members of VAF.
 
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I too have an old Smithy. It is absolutely, positively not as good as owning a full-size Bridgeport and a big gear lathe <g> When I need a "real" machine, I go use one at a friend's machine shop.

However, the Smithy has turned out everything from small parts to whole PSRU's. It has been reliable and its shortcomings are not hard to work around. Given the price and package size, I have no regrets. A very handy machine for the homebuilder.

Spent an evening with it last week; new backplate for a screwless spinner: