airguy

airguy

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I'm down to picking miscellaneous parts and pieces for my panel, and I need a marker beacon reciever, which is sometimes (not always) included in the audio panel. I'm looking for suggestions of brand/model of audio panel (or other option) to get the marker beacon reciever included in the panel somewhere.

Currently I'm fixed on Dynon Skyview screens (dual 10") and I'm on the fence about either a Garmin 430W or GTN650 for a GPS and nav/comm. It's my understanding that neither of these have the marker beacon receiver in them and I'll still need one somewhere else. I like the PMA5000 because it's cheap, but it specifically deleted the marker beacon to be cheap - is there any other options other than going with a full-blown audio panel for this?
 
PS Engineering sells a stand-alone MBR.

Do not be tempted to buy the RST kit. There never has been and unlikely will never be a worse company or person in business.

John Siebold
 
With an IFR GPS there is no need for a marker beacon. I've got a Bonanza with a GNS 430W that I've been flying IFR for 10 years and never needed a MB. I didn't put one in my RV-8 either. In fact I do not even have an ILS in the 8; GNS 420W.

My $.02
 
airguy said:
That's a valid question, but I'm wanting a full-IFR capable machine with all options available to me for approaches.
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As previously mentioned, if you're using a 430W or a GTN (WAAS certified GPS), no requirement for the MB (unless and in some rare CATII/III cases where you won't be using your RV)...

Cheers,
Stein
 
And what happens when I want to make an ILS approach or non-precision approach at an airport with no GPS RNAV approach?

I'm not IFR rated yet - I'll start that this summer - so forgive me if I'm asking a question with an obvious answer. If the IFR GPS absolves me of the need for a MB due to accurate ground path detection and distance-to-threshold, OK I understand that. At this point there is still some "I don't know what I don't know" going on. Will I need a MB for a non-GPS approach if I have the IFR GPS on board to give accurate ground position?
 
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Well I agree Greg,

You can shoot an ILS normally down to 200ft AGL whereas WAAS approaches are are normally 300 ft minimum and some are listed higher than that.

Do you NEED a MB to shoot an ILS?.. Not sure on the legality.

Having said all that how many time have I needed an ILS where the WAAS won't do..very rarely.

Cheers

Frank
 
Another thought...OK I'll admit it. I don't fly with a current GPS database..I use one that is always a month out of date second hand from another pilot.

How can this be? Grab yer pitchforks etc.

Well, it IS legal. You can shoot an ILS and fly enroute with your GPS database provided to make sure all the enroute points shown on the chart are in your database.

I just never use the WAAS approach cus it could be out of date.

So if I can't shoot a WAAS then I have to use an ILS for precision approaches.

So there is a significant economic reaon FOR having a fully functional ILS.

Frank
 
The date in lower left corner of the approach plate will tell you if you can use expired database for that particular approach.. so you can use your expired database for both ILS and RNAV approaches, as long as the procedure hasn't changed since the date of database you have.

As for MB.. if you choose to put it in, PS 8000 audio panel has it.. I'd recommend that audio panel anyways.
 
airguy said:
And what happens when I want to make an ILS approach or non-precision approach at an airport with no GPS RNAV approach?

If you have a GPS, like a 430W, you have all the info in the DB for the ILS and non-precision approach. It won't tell you that you or alarm you when you are at the MB, but the way point is in the DB and you will know how far away you are from it. Having said that, I have a MB in my system, Garmin audio panel, and I am glad I have it. The audio and visual alarm comes on when I have reach it.

Good luck
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Bavafa said:
If you have a GPS, like a 430W, you have all the info in the DB for the ILS and non-precision approach. It won't tell you that you or alarm you when you are at the MB, but the way point is in the DB and you will know how far away you are from it. Having said that, I have a MB in my system, Garmin audio panel, and I am glad I have it. The audio and visual alarm comes on when I have reach it.

Good luck
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This agrees with some other stuff I found out in the "interwebz", I just wanted to make sure I was interpreting it correctly. The OM is the only marker required for CAT 1 approaches, and it can be substituted by any other approved method of identifying that fix (radar callout by ATC, radial cross, DME, IFR GPS fix). So it appears I'm good to go without the MB receiver as long as I have the IFR GPS to know when I reach that point.

With that in mind, and going back to my original question, I am now going to proceed to fail to panic.
 
This is why I asked why you wanted a MB in the first place. Unless you're shooting Cat II/III ILS's or need an OM for the FAF on a LOC approach when your GS is out (and a GPS can sub for that), you don't need a MB receiver any more except as a back-up for a GPS failure.
 
frankh said:
You can shoot an ILS and fly enroute with your GPS database provided to make sure all the enroute points shown on the chart are in your database
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And you are doing this, of course...manually verifying both the existence and lat/lon of each and every item on the en route chart(s) in your database, each month? Oh, and the SIDS and STARS, if you want to use one of those?

And how would you prove this to an FAA investigator in the event of an incident?
 
Flying Scotsman said:
And you are doing this, of course...manually verifying both the existence and lat/lon of each and every item on the en route chart(s) in your database, each month? Oh, and the SIDS and STARS, if you want to use one of those?

And how would you prove this to an FAA investigator in the event of an incident?
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Yup!...But only the points i will use on any particular flight.

Frank
 
"You can shoot an ILS normally down to 200ft AGL whereas WAAS approaches are are normally 300 ft minimum and some are listed higher than that."

The DH of an LPV will be the same as an ILS on the same runway. The limiting factor for most LPV approaches is the lack of appropriate approach lighting and possibly runway marking/lighting. The other limiting factor is missed approach climb. Sometimes minimums are higher due to obsticles on the missed approach path.
 
frankh said:
Yup!...But only the points i will use on any particular flight.

Frank
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Oooookay...

I'm curious how you do this...and how you'd prove that you had done it, as I said, in the event of an incident.

I'm not saying it's not legal, or that you or anyone else isn't...it just seems to be a lot of work for the savings.
 
I like hearing the MB on an ILS approach as it verifies my position without having to look at the gps. Its relatively inexpensive and it will give you full ILS capability when the gps is down for some reason.
 
It is always a lot easier if upgraded at the same time so if the $$$ difference is not that great and within budget, my recommendation would be to install it. I will seldom comes to use but it is so great when you need it and have it.

My 0.02 cents as usual
 
Niko said:
I like hearing the MB on an ILS approach as it verifies my position without having to look at the gps. Its relatively inexpensive and it will give you full ILS capability when the gps is down for some reason.
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FWIW- The Marker B's are going the way of the NDB/ADF- it is being de-comisioned at many ILS approaches- Look at the approach charts in local ILS approaches and count how many MB's are still around...I would save that weight for something else...FWIW
 
Flying Scotsman said:
Oooookay...

I'm curious how you do this...and how you'd prove that you had done it, as I said, in the event of an incident.

I'm not saying it's not legal, or that you or anyone else isn't...it just seems to be a lot of work for the savings.
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Because not doing it would not be legal and a contientious instrument rated pilot I do not fly illegally.

Besides I think the onus of proof would be on those to prove I didn't do it..:)

Frank
 
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