Veetail88

Veetail88

Well Known Member
I've been flying my 8 for a while now. When flying solo, my CG is (normally) pretty near the front of the envelope and I've gotten quite used to landing it that way, albeit I run out of up elevator trim on final and am holding a bit of back pressure for landing. This has worked out fine, and as all of my landings are wheelies, only a slight nudge forward is required to stick the airplane to the runway. Everything is fine right?

On the occasion however that I have to go around, with flaps fully deployed and "balls to the wall", a fairly large amount of forward stick pressure is required until I get the flaps up and the trim pushed forward. This has seemed normal to me (although I have no other RV-8 experience to judge by) and I have not worried about it. I do however realize that should I loose my grip on the stick at that moment, I'd be in big trouble! To mitigate this, while my trim and flap switches are on the stick, held tightly by my right hand, I always reach over and operate the flaps and trim with my left hand. This hasn't bothered me and it seems that the the high stick force in this situation is normal.

In discussing this whole thing with a friend the other day, he began to question whether this was indeed normal or not. He's flown way more types than I (except for an RV-8) and doesn't recall running into this.

So that's the question. Is it normal? If not, what might be wrong?

Thanks in advance for your help!
 
Stick pressure

I'm sure if you trimmed as you slowed down and all the way to short final , you would not have any left. I find myself not trimming on final and dealing with a little stick pressure. Play around with not trimming as much .
 
First off there are many more experienced and better RV or other type pilots here than me. But with 250 hours on my bird I would say from my experience everything you report is the same as mine.
I do fly solo with my tiedown/emergency bag weighing about 16 pounds in the back luggage. Up front in luggage when two up, which you have to look forward to.
Trim the same, full up with flaps on final. And when you apply full power for the go-arround that trim wants to do as told. I have manual trim and I crank it down fast with my free hand and bring up the flaps as I reach climb speed.
 
I normally fly solo with two cases of bottled water in the baggage area. Helps the cg, useful if you need water on the ground, and cheap and welcome if you need to take out a case and leave it somewhere.
 
Sounds completely normal to me. I don't think its that unusual in certified planes; for example the Mooney 201 I used to fly had the same requirement. You had to get on the trim promptly during a go around.
 
Simple explanation: In conventional (not T-tail) airplanes as you approach to land at low or idle power the airspeed over the horizontal stabilizer is about, say, 60 knots, and you have it trimmed as best you can. Now apply full power and the prop throws a lot of extra air over the tail. The stabilizer 'thinks' the airspeed is say 75 knots, and reacts by pushing the nose up.
Our 182 always took a lot of forward pressure on a go-around. Not a good time for the seat to slip back.
 
Just a thought, but you may not need full power for a go around. By all means use it all if needed, but for practice try some less-than-full power wave-offs.
 
Practice makes perfect

This occurrence is so normal, in the U.S. CFI's are required to learn/demonstrate the "elevator trim stall". It's a poorly configured and very nose high power-on stall. Page 4-11 covers it in the Airplane Flying Handbook, if you're so inclined.
https://www.faa.gov/regulations_pol...irplane_handbook/media/faa-h-8083-3a-3of7.pdf

I would say to head to the practice area and see for yourself, it's a worthwhile exercise (normal disclaimer yadda yadda grab a CFI)

I would also be hesitant to use anything but full rated power in a piston engine on a go-around.

Safe flying!
 
Been there

During transition training with in the RV 9A, I executed a go around. The RV 9A is the factory aircraft and has slick plastic grips. The instructor had his hands folded across his chest and wasn't near the stick. It was hot in my hand was sweaty and the amount of back pressure on the stick was very surprising. I was afraid to move my thumb to the trim switch on the stick fearing the stick would slip out of my hand. Since the instructor wasn't ready with his hands near the stick I was concerned that things would go bad very quick. For those who have never performed a go around with full flaps and full trim they will be very surprised at the back pressure on the stick and the forward pressure needed to keep the nose from coming up immediately. Once I experienced this I know to expect the back pressure and I bring the trim and flaps up as soon as I can while holding onto tight grip on the stick.
 
Alan Carroll said:
Sounds completely normal to me. I don't think its that unusual in certified planes; for example the Mooney 201 I used to fly had the same requirement. You had to get on the trim promptly during a go around.
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The Citabria I'm flying right now is the same way. I try to trim for a little backpressure in the roundout, so if it's a wheel landing I just release backpressure rather than needing to pin the wheels on. But boy, if you go around with the flaps still out (it's a 7GCBC), she'll gladly nose up right through 60 MPH. Lots of forward pressure is called for until the airplane can be cleaned up.
 
Brings Back memories

Funny, I remember my first missed approach in a 182, flaps down trimmed up, and then-instructor declares missed approach! full power, BAM - push that yoke with 20 lbs of force ( at least!) and up on the flaps, open cowl flaps, and then grab that trim wheel as fast as possible because, by then, the force was really increasing.

So - increase sounds normal to me.
 
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BillL said:
Funny, I remember my first missed approach in a 182, flaps down trimmed up, and then-instructor declares missed approach! full power, BAM - push that yoke with 20 lbs of force ( at least!) and up on the flaps, open cowl flaps, and then grab that trim wheel as fast as possible because, by then, the force was really increasing.

So - increase sounds normal to me.
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Next time, trim before playing with the cowl flaps. The engine won't overheat in 5 seconds.
 
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