Hi All,
Several folks have emailed me asking about the status of avionics that were lost. Below is a brief update with the lessons that I learned. I would like to emphasize that my goal with this thread is to be constructive and not indulge in any blame game. Hopefully the information this thread will save others from similar plight. I request other posters to please heed to this as well.
The incident: The seller had shipped a bunch of avionics via UPS. Several of the items were missing when I opened the box. UPS was notified the very next day and they did confirm the damage. Eventually, I had to re-source the missing components.
Here are some nuggets that I learned:
1) It seems like many shippers don?t like to declare the value of the shipment (especially if they are high dollar). The reasoning is that such declaration increases the chance of theft as now the value is explicitly stated.
2) Many folks believe that UPS often will find a way not to pay (when the value is declared). Some of the reasons for denial include: poor packaging, burden of proof on the receiver etc.
3) Given 1 and 2 above, the dealers often self-insure or use a third party insurance.
4) When a package is lost/damaged then UPS will only deal with the shipper. The receiver is the third party and needs to talk to the shipper in order to resolve the matter.
Here are the things I would have done differently:
1) Explicitly talk to the shipper about insurance. Who does he insure with? What is his process of resolving matters when packages get lost, damaged and even partially damaged? Ideally you?d like to get this in writing. I failed to do so.
2) Be there in person in order to receive and inspect the package. My package was signed by the concierge and that became a point of dispute, as the seller took the position that theft happened there.
3) The burden of proof is on the receiver in most these cases. So the prudent thing is to take as much precaution as you can:
a. Weigh the box right there and then in front of the UPS person. Refuse to take the delivery if the weights don?t match up.
b. If possible request the shipper to send a photograph of the packaged box. I would compare the box that I receive before I sign.
c. Request the shipper to double box so that either everything reaches you or everything is lost. I learnt that I?d be better off if my entire shipment was lost. The fact that I was missing only a partial shipment made things difficult.
d. Finally, check the box carefully for any sign of damage or re-packaging. Again it would help to request the shipper to use new
boxes where any tampering could be detected.
4) Have a good relationship with the shipper. He is the one who needs to talk to the shipping company and without his help your options are limited. Tempers flared between me and the shipper early on and that affected how we dealt with the issue. It was a sad end to almost a six month long partnership, where we designed and created a panel together.
I started building around May 2012 so my time here has been brief compared to so many of the veterans. But I have quickly understood that most of the dealers here are small self-employed businesses that have to deal with such shipping issues often. I know that soon I?ll have to order more parts and components that will be expensive and the only assurance in many of such cases will be trust between the dealer and the client. I am quite sure that given the camaraderie and support amongst the VAFers chances of such incidents happening will be close to none.
Finally, several folks from VAF have come out with words of support and help and I?d like to acknowledge them. Stein has been remarkably supportive and kind in trying to mediate. He was not my original dealer and he had no reason to help me. No wonder folks here talk highly of you Stein.
Other friends that I?d like to acknowledge include Michael Schofield (Dynon) , Jim Piavis (Jim P), Buck Roetman (Buckeagle), Bob Leffler (rleffler) , Brian Chesteen (brantel), Jerry Morris (RV8iator), Ron (ssmdive), Tom Swearengen (TS Flightlines) and Craig Vince (craigvince). Each of them has provided invaluable council and perspectives that often I was missing. Heartfelt thanks.
This will be my last post on this subject and I?ll reiterate my request to keep this thread positive and constructive.
Several folks have emailed me asking about the status of avionics that were lost. Below is a brief update with the lessons that I learned. I would like to emphasize that my goal with this thread is to be constructive and not indulge in any blame game. Hopefully the information this thread will save others from similar plight. I request other posters to please heed to this as well.
The incident: The seller had shipped a bunch of avionics via UPS. Several of the items were missing when I opened the box. UPS was notified the very next day and they did confirm the damage. Eventually, I had to re-source the missing components.
Here are some nuggets that I learned:
1) It seems like many shippers don?t like to declare the value of the shipment (especially if they are high dollar). The reasoning is that such declaration increases the chance of theft as now the value is explicitly stated.
2) Many folks believe that UPS often will find a way not to pay (when the value is declared). Some of the reasons for denial include: poor packaging, burden of proof on the receiver etc.
3) Given 1 and 2 above, the dealers often self-insure or use a third party insurance.
4) When a package is lost/damaged then UPS will only deal with the shipper. The receiver is the third party and needs to talk to the shipper in order to resolve the matter.
Here are the things I would have done differently:
1) Explicitly talk to the shipper about insurance. Who does he insure with? What is his process of resolving matters when packages get lost, damaged and even partially damaged? Ideally you?d like to get this in writing. I failed to do so.
2) Be there in person in order to receive and inspect the package. My package was signed by the concierge and that became a point of dispute, as the seller took the position that theft happened there.
3) The burden of proof is on the receiver in most these cases. So the prudent thing is to take as much precaution as you can:
a. Weigh the box right there and then in front of the UPS person. Refuse to take the delivery if the weights don?t match up.
b. If possible request the shipper to send a photograph of the packaged box. I would compare the box that I receive before I sign.
c. Request the shipper to double box so that either everything reaches you or everything is lost. I learnt that I?d be better off if my entire shipment was lost. The fact that I was missing only a partial shipment made things difficult.
d. Finally, check the box carefully for any sign of damage or re-packaging. Again it would help to request the shipper to use new
boxes where any tampering could be detected.
4) Have a good relationship with the shipper. He is the one who needs to talk to the shipping company and without his help your options are limited. Tempers flared between me and the shipper early on and that affected how we dealt with the issue. It was a sad end to almost a six month long partnership, where we designed and created a panel together.
I started building around May 2012 so my time here has been brief compared to so many of the veterans. But I have quickly understood that most of the dealers here are small self-employed businesses that have to deal with such shipping issues often. I know that soon I?ll have to order more parts and components that will be expensive and the only assurance in many of such cases will be trust between the dealer and the client. I am quite sure that given the camaraderie and support amongst the VAFers chances of such incidents happening will be close to none.
Finally, several folks from VAF have come out with words of support and help and I?d like to acknowledge them. Stein has been remarkably supportive and kind in trying to mediate. He was not my original dealer and he had no reason to help me. No wonder folks here talk highly of you Stein.
Other friends that I?d like to acknowledge include Michael Schofield (Dynon) , Jim Piavis (Jim P), Buck Roetman (Buckeagle), Bob Leffler (rleffler) , Brian Chesteen (brantel), Jerry Morris (RV8iator), Ron (ssmdive), Tom Swearengen (TS Flightlines) and Craig Vince (craigvince). Each of them has provided invaluable council and perspectives that often I was missing. Heartfelt thanks.
This will be my last post on this subject and I?ll reiterate my request to keep this thread positive and constructive.
