airguy

Unrepentant fanboy
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Not to start a flame war of historic proportions reminiscent of the primer wars, but what is the public opinion of running LOP with MOGAS (non-ethanol variety)? Any issues? Any operational history that someone might care to share? I am, of course, assuming compression of 8.5:1 or less as to preclude detonation.
 
I've run the ethanol variety and havn't had any issues as far as leaning. I am on the ROP side of the fence however, and actually think it runs smoother with the mogas as compared to 100LL. Others mileage my vary. FYI, I'm running an o-360 with 8:5-1 pistons.
 
For what it's worth, my intention is an XPIO360 with full monitoring and horizontal induction.
 
Here is an interesting article I found helpful concerning leaning. It doesn't mention Mogas, but it does mention where / how to run LOP, how to protect your engine running lean, and what to look for / and minimize detonation possibilities. Very useful info for getting the most hours out of your engines.

http://www.buy-ei.com/Manuals/The Pilots Manual (by EI).pdf

Also, good info on leaning to help prevent fouling plugs.

To answer your question though, running LOP with mogas. I don't see any problems. Have your procedures set so you know what power settings you are trying to attain. Reading the above article will give you those parameters.
 
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I have about 130 hours on an O-320(150hp) Grumman AA1B running regular unleaded whenever possible. After a dynamic prop balance, I discovered that the engine would run smoothly WOT LOP in cruise above 8,000. This may be more luck than anything else. Instrumentation is minimal - one EGT probe. 1300 hours SMOH and I don't know how it was treated before I got it.

I have seen 6.5 gal/hour total from gas pump to gas pump on cross country flights. The only difference between 100LL and mogas that I can tell is that during taxi/idle the 100LL will load up if it is not leaned properly.

YMMV
 
I AGREE

I have run mogas for 150 hours and it leans exactly the same.

I have not noticed any difference in EGT temps and the fuel flow for the same airspeed is identical to 100LL

I run LOP all the time.

Ethanol, don't know about that yet but I suspect it will be OK for 90% of the flying I do....Its coming to Oregon by April 1st according to the guy at the 76 gas station in town.

According to the folks who did a bunch of testing with AGE 85 one can tell how much water is dissolved in the gas with a hydrometer test....more testing to follow.

Frank
 
LOP operations simplified...

I sucked out the best info from the EI manual and adjusted it for us IO-390 users. You can adjust the numbers to suit any engine/HP as needed. I have used LOP for a while now and couldn't imagine throwing away the extra $fuel$ with ROP operations!! Hope this helps someone.

Travis

Click to enlarge the image:



IO-390 215 HP Engine
(75% power output = 161.25 HP)


100 degrees ROP = Best Power = 13.061 GPH (.081 * HP = BSFC Gal/HR)

62 degrees LOP = Best Economy = 9.067 GPH (.060 * HP = BSFC Gal/HR)

3.994 GPH savings operating LOP over ROP at 75% power!
** Must adjust LOP RPM/MP settings as needed for 75% power, different setting than ROP 75% power **


There are many leaning methods available. Below are a number of them for your consideration:

The ?Best Power? Leaning Method:
Set the mixture so the leanest cylinder operates 1000F rich of peak EGT (see chart). This
method helps ensure the exhaust valves stay reasonably cool. The engine will produce maximum
power for a given throttle setting. Of all the leaning methods presented, this method will produce
the highest airspeed, fuel consumption and CHT?s.
For engines that have a wide fuel/air distribution between cylinders (such as carbureted engines
and some injected engines), this method may result in some of the cylinders running very rich.
These rich cylinders can produce carbon deposits and fouled plugs. If this is the case for your engine,
you may want to consider a leaner operating method.

The ?Peak EGT? Leaning Method:
Set the mixture so the leanest cylinder operates at peak EGT. At this mixture setting the EGTs
will be 1000F hotter than the ?Best Power? leaning method? (see chart). This method results
in the highest temperature on the exhaust valves and heat damage could become an issue. The
engine will produce approximately 4% less power and the fuel consumption will be approximately
14% lower than with the ?1000F Rich-of-Peak (ROP) Leaning Method.? The CHTs will be near
there highest.

The ?Lean-of-Peak (LOP)? Leaning Method:
Set the mixture so the richest cylinder operates at 30-800F lean of peak EGT. At this mixture
setting the CHTs will be the coolest and the EGT will be 20-700F hotter than the ?1000F Rich-of-
Peak (ROP) Leaning Method? (see chart). This method results in reasonably cool exhaust
valve temperatures. The engine will produce approximately 7+% less power and the fuel
consumption will be 20+% lower than with the ?Best Power? leaning method.?

The ?LOP with Power Recovery? Leaning Method:
Set the mixture so the richest cylinder operates at 30-800F lean of peak EGT. Increase the manifold
pressure by 1.25" Hg to recover 5% of the power loss (.25" Hg per %H.P.). It is important the richest
cylinder is not allowed to drift within 300F of peak EGT (refer to the detonation survey for your engine).

It must remain at LOP operation. The lean mixture is required for all cylinders to ensure that detonation does not occur. The higher the power recovery, the higher the chance of detonation.
The fuel consumption and power achieved for an engine by using one of the leaning methods outlined
above may vary depending on the fuel/air distribution between cylinders of that engine. For example: A
carbureted engine power may not change much as it is leaned past the best power mixture. As the engine is leaned, the leaner cylinders will lose power as the richer cylinders gain power. Also, the specific fuel consumption for some cylinders may be at best economy while the other cylinders will be at best power or richer. Therefore, the specific fuel consumption for the engine will be more than that shown in the chart.
 
Ha ha...Ya

I followed my buddy around on his first flight...so pedal to the metal to break the engine....Wow!..12 GPH for an hour to keep up with him..

Gulp that was spendy...even running Mogas...:D

Frank
 
Travis, somehow when you copied & pasted the info it added an extra "0" to some of the numbers.
 
Travis, somehow when you copied & pasted the info it added an extra "0" to some of the numbers.

Actually, I guess the forum translated the degrees symbol over to a 0. I don't know why, I guess its just a forum thing. Should be able to discern where an extra 0 was placed though.
 
Actually, I guess the forum translated the degrees symbol over to a 0. I don't know why, I guess its just a forum thing. Should be able to discern where an extra 0 was placed though.

It might be better if you "edited" the last zero out. Someone is gonna get confused. :eek:
 
?

Hi.

I can't this link to work:

Here is an interesting article I found helpful concerning leaning. It doesn't mention Mogas, but it does mention where / how to run LOP, how to protect your engine running lean, and what to look for / and minimize detonation possibilities. Very useful info for getting the most hours out of your engines.

http://www.buy-ei.com/Manuals/The&#3...0(by%20EI).pdf

Also, good info on leaning to help prevent fouling plugs.

To answer your question though, running LOP with mogas. I don't see any problems. Have your procedures set so you know what power settings you are trying to attain. Reading the above article will give you those parameters.
__________________
Larry Geiger
Lincoln, NE


Anyone knows where this article is now?

Thanks.

 
Most modern cars run LOP on mogas all the time. Doesn't seem to create a problem.

I suspect at most it might require a slight change in timing if anything at all.