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AlexRV10

I'm New Here
Hi All,

I am planning on building a RV-10. I live in northern Italy, I have a US-PPL with IR, so I want to register the aircraft under a trust or a US-company in the US. I already have reserved a N-number (N-61GU). Form 8130-2F, Chapter 8 says, that it is possible to build an experimental aircraft outside the US. So far so good. The sticky thing about it, is, that the airworthiness certificate and final inspection can only be issued and performed by a DAR, and the problem is, that only a US-citizen can become a DAR......
So, before ordering my first kit and tools I would ask if someone knows a DAR who lives in Europe, or visits regularly Europe, or a DAR in the US, who would like to come to Italy (when I finish my aircraft in appr.four years). I just don't want to end in a dead end road with a lot of sheat metal, rivets, that looks like an airplane but can never be certified like it.

Regards,

Alex
 
Alex,
Are you just planning on building your RV-10 in Italy then shipping it back to the States?
Or are you hoping to fly your N-reg airplane in Italy/Europe too?

If the latter, I strongly recommend that you first check out the regulations covering the use of N-reg experimental (i.e. non-certified) a/c in Italy/Europe.

I don't know what the rules are but I bet they are complex and restrictive.
You may find the regulation influence your decision about which rules to build under and where to register it.

Best of Luck,
Steve Hutt
 
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Hi Steve,

Of course I want to fly the a/c in Europe, I know about the different restrictions in each country in Europe regarding home-built aircraft, but with a N-reg. aircraft you have less problems, for example you can fly IFR/N-VFR which isn't possible with European-reg. experimental a/c.

Thanks for your reply,

Alex
 
OK Alex,
As long as you have checked.

I know of plenty of certified N-reg a/c based here in the UK. I also know of quite a few RV's which were imported from the US and which were re-registered on arrival onto the UK register with a 'Permit to Fly'. I could be wrong, but I am not aware of any N-reg experimentals based in the UK.

Do make sure that the flight priviledges you mention are applicable to experimental as well as certified N-reg a/c.

If the advantages you mention were available to experimental a/c I would have expected many of those US imports to have remained N-reg.

I hope you can do what you want to and that everything works out for you. I am wary though that the European regulations will not treat N-reg experimentals the same as N-reg certified a/c. Best to find out now.

All the best,
Steve Hutt
 
Hi Alex,

it's not easy. Here are the key issues:
- the builder needs to register the airplane, which means, you need to be a US citizen or at least a green card holder.
- the DAR cannot assign a test area for flight testing phase 1 outside of the US airspace (simply, because it's outside of his authority).

If you can work around those issues you might be able to get an N registration in Italy.
An alternative is to buy a N registrated experimental in the US and have it shipped to Europe (and register the plane with an US citizen or an US company).

If you need more information, feel free to contact me directly ([email protected]).

Cheers

Thilo
(Germany / GA, USA)
 
Alex,

In most European counties you must have specific permission to operate an aircraft that does not have an ICAO compliant Certificate of Airworthiness. An Experimental Certificate is not ICAO complaint, so you will need permission each time you enter each country (by and large if you fly a European homebuilt the have all recognised each other's homebuilt certifications). The point of my post is that most of these permissions state Day/VFR only.

There are many hurdles to get over before it is possible to operate an N reg Experimental aircraft in Europe (how many have you seen flying around?), I wish you the best of luck in achieving your goal, but please do not under estimate the challenge. It may be worth have plan B up your sleeve and run that in parallel from the start of your build as it may be very difficult to back-track halfway through.

One issue for a non US citizen/Green-card holder operating an N reg experimental owned by an 'non-citizen company' is that you must fly a certain percentage of time in the US (40 or 60% - can't remember which), and you must certify that to be the case every 6 months - the FAA send you a form.

Pete
 
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AlexRV10 said:
for example you can fly IFR/N-VFR which isn't possible with European-reg. experimental a/c.
Click to expand...

There are few experimental (Annex II) planes in Finland which fly IFR... there ain't limitations which would restrict this for home builds either but no-one has never tried that yet. Most probably as keeping IFR up-to-date and so doesn't make much sense as a hobby.

After reading all these post all I can say that good luck and I truly hope you'll find solution which you are pleased as well!
 
from Italy

AlexRV10 said:
Hi Steve,

Of course I want to fly the a/c in Europe, I know about the different restrictions in each country in Europe regarding home-built aircraft, but with a N-reg. aircraft you have less problems, for example you can fly IFR/N-VFR which isn't possible with European-reg. experimental a/c.

Thanks for your reply,

Alex
Click to expand...

Hi Alex, you're right with your N number experimental certification. If you can do it, it's really the easy way.

If you can't, we have in Italy a new program to certify the experimental aircraft via FCap (Federazione Club Aviazione Popolare) that stay between the builder and the Italian FAA (Enac). Probably after the first annual check you can extend your certificate into an IFR, not easy but absolutely possible; the law permit this option.

I've a friend in northern Italy that have flown his RV-10 this year but don't know if it's IFR certified, I (or you - it's near Milan) can ask him.

If you're intersted to take some information about the italian Exp way just ask, I'm in Trento. take a look to my website and send me a pm if you like.

Bye
 
N-reg in Europe

Hi Alex,

I need to clarify a few things: to bring an N registered Experimental into Euorpe and fly it there depends on the country. Here in Germany it is surprisingly simple: we need to send an application once a year to the LBA (the German version of the FAA) and get the permit back. They don't even charge a fee! As far as IFR is concerned the LBA typically states, that the same limitations apply than given by the FAA - meaning, that if the plane is IFR under FAA rules you can fly it IFR in Germany, too. At our airfiled we have 3 N registered Experimentals, of which one is IFR certified (out of 2 planes in total).
Don't know about the rules in Italy, though.Obviously, to own an N registered plane certain FAA rules apply.

Building a plane outside of the US and registering it under FAA rules is a different subject...


Cheers

Thilo
 
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