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pboyce

Active Member
I have a simple question which I cannot find an answer to in the archives: am I required to carry my logbook in my RV-7A? Or can I leave it in the hangar and fill it out when I get back from a flight?

Thanks,

Paul
 
FAR 61.51 says you need to carry your logbook with endorsements if you are a student or recreational pilot.

I usually carry my logbook only on long, out of state, crosscountry flights. Otherwise I just leave it home.

I carry my amateur built AC log book with my AWC endorsement sticker in it along with my operating limitations and POH for the airplane. I have a nice little zipper ring binder that holds everything.

Roberta
 
May be a dumb question, but wouldn't you need it to prove you're current should you end up speaking to someone from the FAA for whatever reason?

PJ
 
I've been told many times over the years that you NEVER carry your log book with you! Not legally required, and you don't have to answer any specific questions during a ramp check fishing trip while already flustered.

I would venture a guess that if the FAA demands that you produce your logs, it might also be prudent consider legal counsel?
 
I always keep the logbook in my flight bag although I'm not required to do so. I rent and occasionally the dispatcher wants to see that I've had a BFR or that I've made the required number of landings to carry passengers in the previous 90 days etc. I also keep my medical certificate and the pilot's certificate with it. I keep copies of everything elsewhere.

I'm not particularly concerned about the FAA or ramp checks or any of that stuff. The best defense, I find, is flying properly and when I don't, well, I should have to explain myself.

YMMV

As for what's required, well, 61.51 is pretty darned clear. Private pilots don't have to carry logbooks in the aircraft. Student, sport, and recreational pilots -- and CFIs with a sport pilot certificate providing training -- do.

But you have to be able to present the logbook when requested if the request is reasonable. One thing -- and I expect this would come in handy when some local cop wants the stuff -- you're required to PRESENT it, not SURRENDER it.
 
PJSeipel said:
May be a dumb question, but wouldn't you need it to prove you're current should you end up speaking to someone from the FAA for whatever reason?

PJ
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You only have to prove you are current if you are hauling passengers. If all you ever fly is an RV-3 all your log book needs is your BFR.
 
N941WR said:
You only have to prove you are current if you are hauling passengers. If all you ever fly is an RV-3 all your log book needs is your BFR.
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That's why I love these boards, I learn something new every day.

PJ
 
N941WR said:
You only have to prove you are current if you are hauling passengers. If all you ever fly is an RV-3 all your log book needs is your BFR.
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Forgive me for being a bit slow, but if you have to prove that you have had a BFR during a ramp check, and that info is usually only put in your log book, don't you need to carry your log book when you fly?

I've never experienced a ramp check, so I'm not sure they do ask to see if you have had a BFR.
 
I'm not sure Mickey

I usually don't have my log book in the plane with me but like you, I've never been ramp checked.

However, I have an uncle-in-law is a retired FAA examiner and he might know the answer. I'll check with him and get back to you.
 
N941WR said:
I usually don't have my log book in the plane with me but like you, I've never been ramp checked.

However, I have an uncle-in-law is a retired FAA examiner and he might know the answer. I'll check with him and get back to you.
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This thread tells me that while we don't need to carry logbooks with us, it might not be a bad idea to carry a copy of the FARs so we can recite chapter and verse to someone who asks for the logbook.

91.203 lists the documentation required aboard an aircraft. A logbook isn't one of them.

61.113 lists the pp privileges. You DO need to have a logbook endorsement photocopy on file with FSDO when carring passengers for a charitable airlift.

61.51 answers many of these questions.The MUST be presented upon a "reasonable request" by the FAA administrator, any federal, state or local law enfocement, officer., or an authorized reprresntative frm the NTSB.

Student pilots MUST carry a logbook.
Sport pilots MUST carry a logbook
A recreationalpilot MUST carry a logbook on all solo flights that exceed 50 nm from where instrutin was received., controlled airspace, night operations, and in aircraft for which the pilot does not hold an appropriate category of class rating.
Flight instructors with a sport pilot rating to have to carry the logbook when providing flight training.

There are two issues prsented in 61.51 (i)...
a. Whether it HAS to be carried aboard an aircraft
b. Whether it HAS to be presented.

It does NOT have to be carried aboard an aircraft EXCEPT in those instances cited (if it did always have to be carried aboard an aircraft, the FARs wouldn't have specified the intances if everyone had to carry it aboard the aircraft.

However everone HAS to present it when reasonably asked to do so by authorized represenatives.

The question is, then, what constitutes a reasonable request?. If you're required to carry it aboard the aircraft, then a reasonable request would be "I want to see it NOW."

If you're not required to carry it aboard an aircraft, I think a reasonable request would be , "I want to see you at FSDO tomorrow morning at 9 to show me you hold the endorsements to conduct this flight today."

If you're current and you're logbook is endorsed properly, that will be the end of it. If it turns out the next day your logbook does not carry the endorsement, then you've got a world of hurt coming.

There's no downside in those cases to not having the logbook with you at the time from either perspective.

But again, I think a ramp check would go pretty favorably if you can cite the FARs in this area to the person asking without looking. That's sort of a "shot across the bow" that you know what you're doing.
 
Bob Collins said:
If you're not required to carry it aboard an aircraft, I think a reasonable request would be , "I want to see you at FSDO tomorrow morning at 9 to show me you hold the endorsements to conduct this flight today."
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If this is nothing more than a random ramp check I strongly disagree! Pulling you in to their office just to see a log book is by no means reasonable..... unless of course, you've given them some reason to question you're qualifications/currency. And you should know then and there if there is a problem. Hence my earlier comment, might be time to engage legal counsel!
This thread tells me that while we don't need to carry logbooks with us, it might not be a bad idea to carry a copy of the FARs so we can recite chapter and verse to someone who asks for the logbook.
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I'll just respectfully disagree on this one. My experience with regulators tells me to be respectful and truthful, and don't try to plainly explain to them what they (should) already know! If they're too stupid to realize that what they've asked for isn't required by law, you've already lost.

There was a case some years ago where a FAA guy red tagged a 310 because he believed the prop was damaged. He wouldn't listen to the A&P who tried to explain it was a Q-Tip prop, was supposed to be bent, and isn't it curious that both props were bent identically with no signs of damage? No avail, show up to the office with the repair record to be able to fly again. I guess he is no longer doing field inspections, but.......
 
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ddurakovich said:
I'll just respectfully disagree on this one. My experience with regulators tells me to be respectful and truthful, and don't try to plainly explain to them what they (should) already know! If they're too stupid to realize that what they've asked for isn't required by law, you've already lost.
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The FARs are clear, you MUST present your logbook upon reasonable request. If you don't have your logbook with you at the time of a ramp check, they may make provisions for you to supply it at a future date. In any event, you will have to present it.

To my knowledge, there's no probable cause required on the part of an FAA inspector in asking to see documents.

As for explaining what they should already know, I didn't suggest you cite the FARs in order to clue them in. I suggested you cite the FARs to let them know you can't be screwed with. I agree totally that being respectful and truthful is the way to go, but appearing uninformed about things -- especially things that appear on the PP written -- is inviting their further exploration.
 
Reply from the my uncle-in-law, former FAA

Former FAA said:
No you are not required to carry your pilot log book or for that matter the aircraft logs in the aircraft. The FAA may require them to be available for their review before you can participate in an airshow or an FAA check ride. At the different FSDOs where I worked we always reviewed them before we authorized any aircraft to fly in an airshow or before any FAA Inspector rode aboard for a check ride or re examine. If they were not available for us then the aircraft did not fly in the airshow. We did not review logs for flybys and aircraft that just flew in to watch the show.
If we saw something that did not seem kosher during a ramp check we would request (in writing) the owner to present the logs for our review. I do not know of any FAA Inspector that considered anyone surrending their logs or certificates when they handed them over for inspection as some lawyers have claimed. If you have any questions, just ask.

The Former FAA Guy

P.S. I worked for the FAA as an FAA Safety Inspector. An FAA Examiner works for himself and can charge a fee. He does not work for the FAA.
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I hope that helps everyone. I changed his last name, to protect the innocent.
 
Logbook required in the airplane

I have been ramp checked a few times in 45 years. My experience has been request to see my license & medical and a couple of times the aircraft documents. Never requested my log books. YMMV.
Doug Preston
 
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