Rene Bubberman

Rene Bubberman

Well Known Member
Dear RVators,

Last august RV-7A PH-RVP fell victim to a tip-over accident in Hoganas, Sweden. Its builder decided not to fly anymore and did not reclaim the wreck. My fellow owners of the PH-VII and me made an offer to the insurance company and are no the new owners of the wreck, which we picked up in Sweden and brought it back to Holland last weekend. After thinking over some possible scenario's (stripping the wreck, selling the components, using the engine for a new RV-8 project) we decided to rebuild/restore the plane again. As far as we can see now the emp is 80% destroyed, the wing has one tip plus the last rib gone, the canopy (slider) is completely smashed but the fuselage has "only" damaged top skins AND the left upper longeron is damaged at the attachment point for the rollbar.
I think we will have loads of questions during the project, which I hope you want to help us with. Maybe people which have had this incident are willing to share their experiences with us?
For starters: we plan on selling the plane when it flies again. Is it wise, in this context, to convert it to a taildragger?

Please give us all your advise, tips etcetera!

All the best, kind regards,
 
hi rene,

i'll be following your progress... in the end, i'd like to see as many 7A's in european skies as possible ;-)

i for one would NEVER buy an accident airplane, even if it had been rebuilt.
maybe if i was part of the rebuild process/rebuilt it myself but even then...

so imho i would part it out and maybe reuse a few things, have the engine rebuilt, reuse some avionics / lighting etc...
but i'd get a fresh set of qb fuse and wings and build a new empennage.
i'd be never comfortable flying a structure where there could be hidden defects or at least some rigging issues.

then again, maybe it's because i'm of swiss thinking ;-)

my 20cts,

bernie
 
"i'd be never comfortable flying a structure where there could be hidden defects or at least some rigging issues.

then again, maybe it's because i'm of swiss thinking ;-)"

Isn't that what the condition inspection is for?
 
No worries, we'll be very careful

Hey, don't forget who will do the rebuild! :p

Every bent piece will be replaced and all suspect parts will be scrutinized and, when needed, replaced. For instance I would not dare using the engine mount again.
 
We all fly accident airplanes at times, must be 90% of C172s/Cherokees have been damaged at some point, nobody seems to see that as any issue(me included). Same with cars, the only ones that you can be certain of having no accident history are new ones, and most of us buy used! Just do it properly and don't scrap what can once again be a nice aeroplane...
That's my two cents worth anyway, thanks.
 
hohocc said:
We all fly accident airplanes at times, must be 90% of C172s/Cherokees have been damaged at some point, nobody seems to see that as any issue(me included). Same with cars, the only ones that you can be certain of having no accident history are new ones, and most of us buy used! Just do it properly and don't scrap what can once again be a nice aeroplane...
That's my two cents worth anyway, thanks.
Click to expand...


Now that is quite a statement................:eek:
 
Go for it.

Rene Bubberman said:
Dear RVators,

Last august RV-7A PH-RVP fell victim to a tip-over accident in Hoganas, Sweden. Its builder decided not to fly anymore and did not reclaim the wreck. My fellow owners of the PH-VII and me made an offer to the insurance company and are no the new owners of the wreck, which we picked up in Sweden and brought it back to Holland last weekend. After thinking over some possible scenario's (stripping the wreck, selling the components, using the engine for a new RV-8 project) we decided to rebuild/restore the plane again. As far as we can see now the emp is 80% destroyed, the wing has one tip plus the last rib gone, the canopy (slider) is completely smashed but the fuselage has "only" damaged top skins AND the left upper longeron is damaged at the attachment point for the rollbar.
I think we will have loads of questions during the project, which I hope you want to help us with. Maybe people which have had this incident are willing to share their experiences with us?
For starters: we plan on selling the plane when it flies again. Is it wise, in this context, to convert it to a taildragger?

Please give us all your advise, tips etcetera!

All the best, kind regards,
Click to expand...

I went through exactly this scenario. In December 2007, my 7a flipped. My fuselage sustained more damage than yours. My wings were undamaged except for the right fiberglass wingtip, tip rib and 10 inches of the outer leading edge skin. My rudder and vertical stab were both damaged.

The post crash pictures are http://new.baron.com/flip

The post rebuild pictures are http://new.baron.com/rvpics

The prop was toasted, crank bent, cowl was cracked, canopy smashed, etc.

The plane has been completely restored/rebuilt to as new condition. I did not repair the fuselage, I replaced it with a new quick build. I found an empennage kit for sale and replaced the vertical stab and rudder.

I converted to a tail dragger, which necessitated a new engine mount and cowling mods. A new wing tip was purchased and fitted the right wing was repaired by replacing the outer leading edge skin and one rib.

There was no spar damage, no popped rivets etc. The wings were perfectly true (except for the wrinkle on one side:))

I was able to transplant my entire instrument panel, forward ribs and most of the wiring to the new fuselage, saving hundreds of hours. Of course as soon as I was finished, I decided to upgrade the panel. :)

The plane looks and flies great. I have NO qualms about it. I built it (twice).

The beauty of sheet metal: Anything can be repaired or replaced as needed.

While I could have patched the old fuselage, it was quicker (and therefore cheaper) to find a fuselage that had not been started.

Fortunately, insurance picked up most of the tab for the rebuild. It's going to cost a lot more than you think, but still a lot less than a complete new airplane.

Feel free to email me or PM if you have specific questions about the process.

JP
 
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Damaged planes

I did my flight training in a Cessna 172SP that had an engine failure on takeoff 2 years prior to me training in it. It was an AD on the the plane that had come out 1 week prior to the engine failure that actually occurred on that plane. The engine quit at 400AGL with 4 people in it. Landed on the ground after the runway, caught a fence, whipped around and stuck the prop in the ground. Engine seized, firewall, cowl and forward fuselage bent, right wing severely bent, belly skins ripped off and horizontal stabilizer damaged. All four survived unscathed. Plane received new engine and components, firewall, cockpit forward skins and bulkheads, new right wing, and skins on the fuselage belly, horizontal stabilizer skins. Plane flies as good as new. No worries as long as whoever rebuilds it knows what the heck they are doing.
 
Inspiring!

Thank you for the replies. Joe, your story sounds very familiar. Do you think it will be hard to replace/repair the upper left longeron?
PS: the link to the post crash pictures doesn't work.
 
Rene Bubberman said:
Thank you for the replies. Joe, your story sounds very familiar. Do you think it will be hard to replace/repair the upper left longeron?
PS: the link to the post crash pictures doesn't work.
Click to expand...

Link is fixed

To answer your question, yes it will be rather difficult to replace the left longeron. I would not recommend you splice or repair it. Also, check the other longeron carefully. When a flip occurs, the roll structure puts tremendous force on the longerons. It's doubtful that one escaped unscathed.

I did consult with Vans tech support about repairing my old fuselage. They stated it could be done. You would need to derivet the entire longeron and fish it out. You might have to remove some skins to reach all the rivets.

Then trim and bend a new longeron and slide it into place, match drill it and rivet it in place. I don't have pictures of your damage, but the side skins are probably stretched a bit as well.

I wish you good luck with your project.
JP
 
Rene Bubberman said:
Dear RVators,

Last august RV-7A PH-RVP fell victim to a tip-over accident in Hoganas, Sweden. Its builder decided not to fly anymore and did not reclaim the wreck. My fellow owners of the PH-VII and me made an offer to the insurance company and are no the new owners of the wreck, which we picked up in Sweden and brought it back to Holland last weekend. After thinking over some possible scenario's (stripping the wreck, selling the components, using the engine for a new RV-8 project) we decided to rebuild/restore the plane again. As far as we can see now the emp is 80% destroyed, the wing has one tip plus the last rib gone, the canopy (slider) is completely smashed but the fuselage has "only" damaged top skins AND the left upper longeron is damaged at the attachment point for the rollbar.
I think we will have loads of questions during the project, which I hope you want to help us with. Maybe people which have had this incident are willing to share their experiences with us?
For starters: we plan on selling the plane when it flies again. Is it wise, in this context, to convert it to a taildragger?

Please give us all your advise, tips etcetera!

All the best, kind regards,
Click to expand...

Rene,

My machine was flipped in 2003 and rebuilt in about 6 months.

The wings are original, the rest was purchased new from VAn's. I wouldn't try to rebuild the fuselage or tail. Most of the internal stuff can be used again.

Airplane has been flying since 2004 now on 3rd engine.
 
Reuse old parts

Rene:

After I bent the nose gear on my 9A, I contracted a company who magnafluxed and used dye penetrant to inspect everything worth saving.

Barry
 
A mate of mine is in the process of rebuilding a 7a tipover and has replaced a huge amount of sheetmetal ,it may have been easier to get a QB fuse but it comes down to time and he's a very experienced builder. I'll be painting it in a few weeks so it'll be good to see how it came together. The biggest thing to come out it for me is my 6A will now be built as a Taildragger ,I don't want to start an whole new thread but the thought of putting years in to the plane only to have to do it again ,or worse,just walk away from all that work means for me I'll do the training and learn to fly it with out the training wheel, Hope to see some pics when it's done
cheers Mat
 
M Wreford said:
A mate of mine is in the process of rebuilding a 7a tipover and has replaced a huge amount of sheetmetal ,it may have been easier to get a QB fuse but it comes down to time and he's a very experienced builder. [...]
cheers Mat
Click to expand...

Either that, or buy a slow build fuse and tail kit and combine this with the wreck. It will most likely still be worth it. After all, 50% of the work and 80% of the cost is in the finishing anyway.

I didn't know the RVP had flipped. Sorry to hear that, from the photos that I have seen, it was a very good looking plane.

Enjoy the rebuild!!!

Hans

P.S. If all goes well, we'll have our container, containing the RV4 arrive at Lelystad next week, where it will stay a couple of weeks for re-assembly, some mods to the instrument panel and certification, before leaving to Germany. Drop me a PM if I can interest you (or one of your partners in crime) in a cup of coffee there!
 
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