R

RScott

Well Known Member
So I launched from 5S9, refueled at 2J9 and LXV, spent the night at 5KE.

I remember in my senior English class the prof saying that the purpose of writing is to communicate.

How many have any idea where I started, ended or where I went? Was I flying in the east, west, south or Rockies? Did I really tell anything other than I made 2 fuel stops? What did I communicate?

So the above route was from my home base of Estacada, in northwest Oregon, refueled at Quincy, Florida and Leadville, Colorado (elevation 9,927 ft. msl) and spent the night at Ketchkan, Alaska, landing on the water. How many of you had any idea the route was bogus?

How about we just make it a normal practice here to use place names that everyone might recognize (I could say, "Estacada, outside Portland, Oregon") and use airport designators only where it makes a difference and is relevant to the discussion. And if you use a designator, throw in the place name also. Sure, you have to type a little bit more, but you also communicate a lot more. And if you weren't trying to communicate, why write in the first place?
 
Going from CYZR to CYXU under Company SOP's for CAR 704 with my PPC on the DHC-6 using my TAS with high DA to get my Vne reduced so my Vfe when approaching the PAPI's after touchdown taxiing via AB .......... uhhhg. Aviation has was too many acronyms and it seems pilots just love em!

I say use english as well ... sure beats having to pull out my CFS (Canadian Flight Supplement) to check the airport ident.
 
Couldn't resist (plugged into Runwayfinder.com).

sdfsdfkp1.jpg
 
YOU HAVE MY VOTE.........

RScott said:
So I launched from 5S9, refueled at 2J9 and LXV, spent the night at 5KE.

I remember in my senior English class the prof saying that the purpose of writing is to communicate.

How many have any idea where I started, ended or where I went? Was I flying in the east, west, south or Rockies? Did I really tell anything other than I made 2 fuel stops? What did I communicate?

How about we just make it a normal practice here to use place names that everyone might recognize (I could say, "Estacada, outside Portland, Oregon") and use airport designators only where it makes a difference and is relevant to the discussion. And if you use a designator, throw in the place name also. Sure, you have to type a little bit more, but you also communicate a lot more. And if you weren't trying to communicate, why write in the first place?
Click to expand...

WHEN I AM READING A POST and come to a 5S9.... etc. I drop that post right there, beacuse it means NOTHING without me doing more research..:mad:

PS. Leave it up to the "boss" to not follow THE PICTURE POST SIZE!:p
 
auto link

Alex Caldwell said:
...Maybe Doug could include an icon so all you'd have to do is type in
the airport identifiers and the runwayfinder link would be created automatically in your post? ...
Click to expand...
Another idea would be to get Doug's software to automagically create a link for all airport identifiers.
 
I thought I was the only one who thought the same thing....just felt it was best to keep MHO on the QT:p...Think any politician (read prior POTUS) would ever use "SNAFU" to describe his handy work if he REALLY knew what those letters meant?? :D
 
RE:point taken...I think ??????

From the begining of my build (Sept 4, 2004) I have signed off all comments with:

Frank @ SGU & SLC..... RV7A...Comment on phase of build

Now it is:

Frank @ 1L8....RV7A.....Last 901 details before flight #1

SGU.....Saint George, Utah home in the desert south west and when I had a few bucks SLC 2nd home in Salt Lake City, Utah.

I thought I was being real cool throwing around pilot lingo. I thought all you real high time pilots with the small wheel in the right location and all parts primed in the appropriate primer had all these airport identifiers commited to memory....ya right. So I get your point.................

So let me introduce you good folks to my airport..........

1L8 is what we like to call Hurricane Internationl (pronounced here in the desert south west as "Her-a-cun Internationl) or in the airport guide as General Dick Stout Field......near Hurricane City or is that Her-a-cun City, Utah.............

TFTH, HAGD, and LOL............

Frank @ Her-a-cun International (1L8).....RV7A....last details....:D



RScott said:
So I launched from 5S9, refueled at 2J9 and LXV, spent the night at 5KE.

I remember in my senior English class the prof saying that the purpose of writing is to communicate.

How many have any idea where I started, ended or where I went? Was I flying in the east, west, south or Rockies? Did I really tell anything other than I made 2 fuel stops? What did I communicate?

So the above route was from my home base of Estacada, in northwest Oregon, refueled at Quincy, Florida and Leadville, Colorado (elevation 9,927 ft. msl) and spent the night at Ketchkan, Alaska, landing on the water. How many of you had any idea the route was bogus?

How about we just make it a normal practice here to use place names that everyone might recognize (I could say, "Estacada, outside Portland, Oregon") and use airport designators only where it makes a difference and is relevant to the discussion. And if you use a designator, throw in the place name also. Sure, you have to type a little bit more, but you also communicate a lot more. And if you weren't trying to communicate, why write in the first place?
Click to expand...
 
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RScott said:
So I launched from 5S9, refueled at 2J9 and LXV, spent the night at 5KE.

I remember in my senior English class the prof saying that the purpose of writing is to communicate.

How many have any idea where I started, ended or where I went? Was I flying in the east, west, south or Rockies? Did I really tell anything other than I made 2 fuel stops? What did I communicate?...
Click to expand...
Over the last few years, to help communicate with myself, I?ve started adding the full name of the more obscure identifiers to my log book. Being afflicted with CRS, when I read my first log book from the eighties, I have no idea where I went on many of my x-country flights without looking them up.

I?ve also started writing more detail, names of passengers, route, unusual sights, events, etc. Besides making it easier to remember my flights, my log book is the closest thing to journal/diary that I?ll ever own.
 
How many have any idea where I started, ended or where I went? Was I flying in the east, west, south or Rockies? Did I really tell anything other than I made 2 fuel stops? What did I communicate?
Click to expand...

If I really cared I would look them up.
 
This thread got me thinking about logbooks

I happen to use logbookpro from NC Software.

Anyway here is how I usually comment my flights:

Passenger name;purpose of flight;weather conditions;procedures;landing quality.

For example:

Penny L;area sightseeing;hazy with light winds;ILS Rwy 5 @ CPK; 1 good and 1 v. good landing.

I used to keep track of my landing quality because in my RV-8 it took me a couple dozen landings before I had my first greaser. In my RV-10 it is pretty rare that I don't grease it on (more a comment about the airplane than about my flying skill).

I would be interested to hear what other information people put in the logbook. Note: Logbook Pro has lots of places for the usual stuff like PIC time, IMC, simulated IMC etc. and you can add additional fields if you want to. Great program.
 
Contrarian

While I agree that unknown designators obfuscate the message, failing to use them is often imprecise in that many political entities (cities, towns, etc.) have multiple airports. Unlike traditional METAR and TAF codes, we can afford the extra text to use both the political and the ICAO identifiers. If I want to see where you say you went, I plug it into my flight planner and that does require the specific identifier for that airport. Why make me look up the town and guess about which one you meant? This is like lawyers (bad) vs. programmers (good). That latter have communications that cannot be ambiguous while the former never seem to get it quite right. As proof, there is no need for a SCOTUS for programming. "I flew from Detroit to Chicago". How's that for precision?
 
Guess I need to change my location in my profile to something more user friendly...not. :p

Besides, if you really want to come give me a piece of your mind you almost know exactly where to find me. Maybe I should add my hangar number...
 
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fstringham7a said:
1L8 is what we like to call Hurricane Internationl (pronounced here in the desert south west as "Her-a-cun Internationl) or in the airport guide as General Dick Stout Field......near Hurricane City or is that Her-a-cun City, Utah.............
Click to expand...

I remember I had to go to... ummm.. Hurricane Utah to handle a couple of claims a few years back and was corrected SOOOOO many times that is was not Hurricane but her-a-cun.:rolleyes:

I will never ever mispronounce that again in that part of the world, now that I'm safe, :DI can say there were way to many front porches with toothless banjo players for my level of comfort. And whats with the dirt???? is red...really red, and the mud will stick to your car like glue and won't come out of your pants..:mad:.so finally, ta heck with ya'll!!!! It's Hurricane!!! either change the spelling or learn how to pronounce it...and I'm sorry if I offended any of you toothless, front porch, banjo players.:p
 
Identifiers

N395V said:
If I really cared I would look them up.
Click to expand...

Also, using identifiers keeps things really simple in some parts of the US of A...

From AirNav, for example:

Search Airports

HOUSTON, TX
106 airports found

ID City Name Remarks
KHOU Houston, TX, USA William P Hobby Airport
KDWH Houston, TX, USA David Wayne Hooks Memorial Airport
KIAH Houston, TX, USA George Bush Intercontinental/Houston Airport
KSGR Houston, TX, USA Sugar Land Regional Airport
KEFD Houston, TX, USA Ellington Field Airport
KCXO Houston, TX, USA Lone Star Executive Airport
KIWS Houston, TX, USA West Houston Airport
KLVJ Houston, TX, USA Pearland Regional Airport
KEYQ Houston, TX, USA Weiser Air Park
KAXH Houston, TX, USA Houston Southwest Airport
KTME Houston, TX, USA Houston Executive Airport
T51 Houston, TX, USA Dan Jones International Airport
KDKR Crockett, TX, USA Houston County Airport
O07 Houston, TX, USA Westheimer Air Park
37X Waller, TX, USA Skydive Houston Airport
2H5 Houston, TX, USA Happy Landings Airport
39R Houston, TX, USA Flyin' B Airport
<snip!>

John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
Rick S. said:
I will never ever mispronounce that again in that part of the world, now that I'm safe, :DI
Click to expand...

Kind of like Nuh-vah-duh / Nuh-vaa-duh. Got corrected within 48 hours of my arrival. By the time I left, I wondered why it took so long! :)
 
Right ON! Lose the identifiers!

RScott - I am with you 100%!! I can't tell you how many times I have read a similar post... with all the K-whatever identifiers... and wondered to myself... where the heck are they... and why don't they just say so?!:rolleyes: I don't have a clue what any of the identifiers are in most of the states... and stopping to research in the middle of a post... well... what a pain. Honestly I'd LIKE to know where you are from or where you've been...

SO... Great idea. Now... if we can get others to cooperate! This board has some slightly opinionated members... and the ship doesn't turn easily! Oh... I'm probably one of those opinionated ones! :eek:

DJ
 
Me, too!

I agree. If you are putting in an identifier you must want people to know where you are talking about. If you want people to know where you are talking about take a few extra seconds and type it out. Remember, you audience is not only national, but international.
 
Me Too

Please type where you are and such. I skip post that do not communicate,
How about using your names while we are trying to communicate.
See me at OSH,,,, say hi! Jaypratt,,,, and I will know who you are addressing,,, what a concept :)
 
YES!

Richard Scott, It is always a sign of brilliance when someone states what is right in front of us. You have done so. Thanks, I liked the following too. It is in total harmony with the purpose of this thread.

apatti said:
I agree. If you are putting in an identifier you must want people to know where you are talking about. If you want people to know where you are talking about take a few extra seconds and type it out. Remember, you audience is not only national, but international.
Click to expand...

I like the idea proposed to DR to create an automatic link to an identifier when they are used. Hope he can do it!
 
Airport identifiers

I figure they call them airport identifiers because they are for identifying airports. I don't have a problem with that. They work really well. Keep a browser tab open to skyvector.com, and if someone posts about a flight from KPAO to KAPA, just copy and paste "KPAO KAPA" into the location lookup window and see the whole great circle route with as much situational detail as you could possibly want.
 
Garage Guy said:
and if someone posts about a flight from KPAO to KAPA
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I suppose I'll just never know where KPAO & KAPA, is.... :D

edit: Note, I'm a speed reader. If I have to jump to another program to interpret something, it just usually won't happen; and the subject is a waste.

I vote for the full language version!

L.Adamson --- RV6A N328SL
 
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Great Topic!

And as someone pointed out above, a very obvious one that never gets talked about....

I always try to test my writing for it's communication qualities as I proof it, and if something isn't clear for the audience I intend it for, I add what is necessary. I try to clearly identify airports, and if I use identifiers, almost always include a name to go along with it - that way, everyone gets it!

Nothing wrong with posting identifiers INMHO....but not all by themselves!
 
I like to write the city, state, then identifier in parentheses.

Crete, NE (KCEK)
Lincoln, NE (KLNK)

This lets you know what city and that it has an airport. Not using identifiers on an aircraft forum to me is a sign of typing laziness.
 
Its Darwinian

Guys,

I figure if someone is really interested in the thread subject, and has the attention span to get value from it or thoughtfully participate, they will take the time to look up the airports.

After reading this thread I'm considering raising the bar even further by posting only latitude and longitude in the title. That should keep most of you from even clicking on it in the first place:D
 
Steve Brown said:
Guys,

I figure if someone is really interested in the thread subject, and has the attention span to get value from it or thoughtfully participate, they will take the time to look up the airports.
Click to expand...

But.................. we won't know IF we're actually interested in the subject. The author, knows the location and visual image as it's being written. We might not have a clue. I always scan postings and pick out the ones that seem of interest. I don't have all day to sit at the computer, and If I have to look up secondary websites or a flight guide to see what's what, I just usually go to something else. It's not a case of attention span or darwinism.

L.Adamson

BTW --- I should change my location from KSLC, to the beautiful and panoramic Rockies of the western United States. Site of the 2002 Winter Olympics, and just a few short hours from the Grand Canyon, Lake Powell, and Monument Valley.

This provides a more meaningful mental image of a "visual paradise", right off the bat. :)
 
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I like to use either airport names or identifiers & make them links to a page that has more info. For example...

Today, I'm driving out to L00 to work on my plane. I should have the conditional inspection almost done by the end of the day. Early next month I'm flying to Fort Worth again on this route: L00-SEZ-AXX-52F. I better call DR & see if there's anything new at the Blue Hangar Cafe.

It's a pain to add the links when you're writing, so most don't do it. That's one of the reasons I put an airport name/ID search on the front page here: http://www.fly2lunch.com/ :D (hmmmm, I need to publish some code snippets so people can drop in an airport search to their web sites...)

EDIT: If anyone is interested, use your browser's "View/Source" at this page (http://www.fly2lunch.com/code/airport_search.html) & drop in the code to your web page for an airport name & ID search. Modify how you see fit!
 
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If you like abreviations how about this one: EDIMGIAFAD! When I moved here to Warner Robins 3 years ago I kept seeing this everywhere - on the doors of businesses, on signs, even a hedge was trimmed so as to spell it out.

Warner Robins is right next to Robins Air Force Base and I moved here three years ago just after the most recent BRAC - base realignment and closure. The local economy is heavily dependent on RAFB and the town wanted to show its support for the base. It means "every day in middle Georgia is armed forces appreciation day."
 
How?

groucho said:
I like to use either airport names or identifiers & make them links to a page that has more info.
Click to expand...

Groucho: I'd love to make underlined blue words link to something, but I don't know how. Cludo, in fact. Is there a link to a tutorial on how to embed links in a posting?:eek:

Thanks,
"Hunter", aka:
 
I also agree with Dick.

Also I know that I am not to modern when it come to the text-message-short-cuts, but I really struggle with the letters.

Is LOL "laughed-out-loud" or "lots-of-luck"?:(

Kent
 
The www.airnav.com Website has a free airport database easily accessible to all via a simple URL. The typical URL format is http://www.airnav.com/airport/<XXX> where <XXX> is the 3 or 4 character airport identifier. A nice way to include airport names in a post would be the following:

I once flew from 21D (Lake Elmo, MN) to KIKV (Ankeny, IA).

This should make everyone happy since it contains all the information at a glance and if you want to know more about the airport you can click on the URL. Granted it's a bit more effort for the person entering the post but if you really want people to read you post and know what you are talking about then it will probably be worthwhile.
 
PCHunt said:
Groucho: I'd love to make underlined blue words link to something, but I don't know how.
Click to expand...
When you are typing a message here, look for the little globe-with-chain-link image just above the window you type in. If you highlight some text & hit that button, it'll pop up a window for you to enter a link. (If the little link globe isn't there, you may have to select the WYSIWYG editor in your VAF forum user control panel.)

When you're done, your text will get a shiny blue underline & clicking on it will take it to whatever web page link you entered. For example...

Weathermeister said it was hot here today.
 
No Joy

groucho said:
When you are typing a message here, look for the little globe-with-chain-link image just above the window you type in. If you highlight some text & hit that button, it'll pop up a window for you to enter a link. (If the little link globe isn't there, you may have to select the WYSIWYG editor in your VAF forum user control panel.)

When you're done, your text will get a shiny blue underline & clicking on it will take it to whatever web page link you entered. For example...

Weathermeister said it was hot here today.
Click to expand...

Tried it, only result was "server not found"

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=31834

Help:confused:
 
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