T

tomcostanza

Well Known Member
I'm building my wings and need to decide on lighting. Is there a consensus on landing lights? Wingtip or leading edge?

How about position lights? LED vs incandescent?

Are you happy with your choice? If you had to do it over again, would you do it differently?

Thanks.

Tom Costanza
(Wings)
 
Landing lights

In the 6A I bought they are in the leading edge of the wing. I would prefer wingtip since it looks cleaner and may be less draggy.
 
Fwiw

Tom,
There have been several threads on this subject which you should probably read thru to see all the facts. I know, because I read them in depth while I was making my decision.

For what its worth, I decided to go with the leading edge landing lights. Several people mentioned not having enough light off the nose when taxiing w/wing tip lights. If you are only going to fly into well lit airports, that will probably work, but not all taxiways have "adequate" lighting. ;) Oh, and I plan on using a flasher mofule for in the pattern/approach.

I also chose to go with the standard Whelen Strobes/Position lights. Yes, more expensive. Yes, probably more weight. But....definately legal when being certified. Easily replaced bulbs/parts at most locations. Wealth of knowledge in my circle of help.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Both Sides of the story

I have 2 rv's, one of each type.
The leading edge looks bad, but is functionally far superior.

The wingtip looks great but is nearly useless as the lighting cant get by the wingtip and forces all light away from the front of the plane. The area off the taxiway looks great but there is no light in front of the plane despite best efforts to try and get it there. I have made a few night landings on a very wide runway and is is no big deal, but if I land somewhere where they really need to point in front Im in big trouble.

LED position lights work fine and are still a novelty so it attracts a lot of attention.

Best,
Kahuna
 
Wingtips & lights

There is a thread on this list called "New Wingtips" that has some thoughts on wingtip lighting. It seems that Van's has changed the wingtip design & squared-off the batplane swoosh. I have been watching the thread because I was hopeful that Van's had increased the length of the lens area more to the inboard so that lighting wouldn't be so tight in the small lens area, being able to "cant" a landing light more towards the front of the plane. However, it doesn't look like that the wingtip lens area changed. :(

Sam
 
7A_@ABI said:
There is a thread on this list called "New Wingtips" that has some thoughts on wingtip lighting. It seems that Van's has changed the wingtip design & squared-off the batplane swoosh. I have been watching the thread because I was hopeful that Van's had increased the length of the lens area more to the inboard so that lighting wouldn't be so tight in the small lens area, being able to "cant" a landing light more towards the front of the plane. However, it doesn't look like that the wingtip lens area changed. :(

Sam
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This has been a nagging question of mine (I posted the pics of the new tips). Is the cut-out bigger or not, if so how much? I would be willing to measure and post the dimensions of my new tips... is anyone with the older style willing to do the same for comparison?

On the original question...
I hate to speak for someone, and I hope I get this right, but when I rode with Dan C a few weeks back I recall him saying if he had to do it again he would go with LED position lights (less current draw).
 
Kahuna said:
LED position lights work fine and are still a novelty so it attracts a lot of attention.
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LEDs may be novel, but they're certainly not a fad. The more I look for them, the more I see LEDs everywhere, traffic lights, truck stop lamps, etc. They're more reliable, use less current, and are brighter.
 
RV7Factory said:
This has been a nagging question of mine (I posted the pics of the new tips). Is the cut-out bigger or not, if so how much? I would be willing to measure and post the dimensions of my new tips... is anyone with the older style willing to do the same for comparison?

Brad,
I'm not at my shop now, but I'll get the dimensions of my "original batwing tips" & post them here tomorrow. Maybe someone will get to it before I do.


Sam
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Leading edge

I've done a decent bit of night flying light aircraft and have always wanted for more light when on the ground. I'm doing leading edge lights and if they don't put out enough light, you'll see me coming down the taxiway with not only leading edge lights, but with an additional off-road light bar on top :)
 
Wingtips and LED's

Davepar said:
LEDs may be novel, but they're certainly not a fad. The more I look for them, the more I see LEDs everywhere, traffic lights, truck stop lamps, etc. They're more reliable, use less current, and are brighter.
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I went with LED's for my position lights. Haven't flown yet but in the "dark hangar" test they are very impressive. They are extremely bright. Longevity should not be an issue since they will last virtually for ever.

The entire kit was $125. It took about 3 hours to build and had never built anything electric before. Also no special wiring needed. Simple as can be.

Strobes are Aeroflash for the wings and tail. Landing lights in the wings.

Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
 
Kahuna said:
I have 2 rv's, one of each type.
The leading edge looks bad, but is functionally far superior.

Kahuna
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Awww...., you shouldn't have said that. Now there's gonna be a couple thousand RV pilots going out to look at their planes and wondering if they really DO look bad......



:D
 
RV7Factory said:
Duh! :eek: I have looked at that thread several times, even posted... How in the world did I miss that big yellow measuring tape?!?!? I think the primer fumes are getting to me. :)
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No problem. That's what we're here for... to help each other out. It's sort of like a support group for crazy airplane builders.


Kahuna said:
The leading edge looks bad...
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That's a matter of opinion, I guess. This picture looks pretty cool to me:

Dscn0374x.jpg
 
New wing tips

Check out Vans online catalog under NEW items. The new RV7 wing tip landing light kit shows a drawing of the 2 wing tips side by side. Looks like the tip cutout is increased from 4 1/2" to 6" to make room for the tip landing lights.

According to Gus at Vans, the "bat man" trailing edge was removed because it was easier to make the tip with a straight trailing edge. Other than these two changes the tips are the same.

Unfortunately, Gus says tips are not exchangeable.
 
Converting wing tips

Based on Van's drawing, it would appear that it may be possible to modify the older wing tip cut outs to match the new tips without too much difficultly. If Van's has them available, the new cut out lenses can be purchased making the modification easier. If I am looking at the right part number (VA-172-1), the cost is $50 for the set of lenses.

James
 
Wingtip Mod

jmjula said:
Based on Van's drawing, it would appear that it may be possible to modify the older wing tip cut outs to match the new tips without too much difficultly. If Van's has them available, the new cut out lenses can be purchased making the modification easier. If I am looking at the right part number (VA-172-1), the cost is $50 for the set of lenses.

James
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James,
I think you could be right. I've thought about a modification for a larger lighting cutout several months ago but it was always the problem of not having a lens that would fit after the mod. Now that a lens is available...??
(My fiberglass skills aren't too keen at this point, so I may be a little too "chicken" to try it right now. :rolleyes: ) Maybe you or one of the pros out there will try it & see how it works.

Sam
7A@ABI
 
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AFulmer said:
Check out Vans online catalog under NEW items. The new RV7 wing tip landing light kit shows a drawing of the 2 wing tips side by side. Looks like the tip cutout is increased from 4 1/2" to 6" to make room for the tip landing lights.
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I was just reading the description of the new lighting kit for the new tips, and I was surprized at a detail I had missed prior. The lighting kit is for 2 75W lights in each wingtip or 4 lights total (300W). I am really curious how these look, so if anybody bites the bullet and orders these, please post a picture.

I am thinking these lights, along with the CreativAir LED Nav/Strobe Combo (if they will work/fit together) might do the trick for me.
 
Hmmm... now that I think of it, my only concern would be the power needed to run 300W of lighting. Looks like I got more research to do. ;)
 
Wing Tip Lighting

Does anyone have particulars on the positioning of the two lenses in the 715-1 wing tips?

Last July, I saw tip lights in one of the Van's prototypes at Aurora, but for the life of me I can't recall which model aircraft, and certainly not if it was a -1 tip or not. I do recall that the landing light was somewhat behind the strobe/position lights and would be shadowed by them. I left with the opinion that was poor placement as an alternative to Duckworks leading edge lights.

Scott Risen (Van's) yesterday said he thought the 715-1 landing light installation newly offered wouldn't put as much light on the ground as a leading edge set up: the strobe/position lights DO shadow the tip lights, and set-back in the tip notch blocked dispersion across the aircraft. That latter point I question because the Duckworks set up is recessed. Van's claims "total performance" so I wonder what's really best for old blind pilots like me. Rather shamefully, Van's doesn't have photos or specifics for something they're hawking; at this point you buy the kit to assay its applicability for your situation.

Where are the dual lamps positioned in that cutaway wing tip, and how much aiming latitude is there?

John Siebold
 
RV7ator said:
Does anyone have particulars on the positioning of the two lenses in the 715-1 wing tips?

Last July, I saw tip lights in one of the Van's prototypes at Aurora, but for the life of me I can't recall which model aircraft, and certainly not if it was a -1 tip or not.

Scott Risen (Van's) yesterday said he thought the 715-1 landing light installation newly offered wouldn't put as much light on the ground as a leading edge set up: the strobe/position lights DO shadow the tip lights, and set-back in the tip notch blocked dispersion across the aircraft. That latter point I question because the Duckworks set up is recessed. Van's claims "total performance" so I wonder what's really best for old blind pilots like me.

Where are the dual lamps positioned in that cutaway wing tip, and how much aiming latitude is there?

John Siebold
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John--
I was just at Van's last Friday and all of their planes were in the hangar. The only ones with wing tip landing lights are the -10s. All the rest have one Duckworks in the leading edge of one wing. None of the two seaters had the new "dash-1" wing tips. From what I have seen of the new tips, though, while they will be better at dispersing light toward the centerline, there is no way they will do it nearly as well as the Duckworks. I would have loved to NOT cut a hole in my leading edges, but chose to for this reason. If your eyes are as "old" as you say they are ;) , Duckworks are probably the way to go.

Re: the duckworth placement. They recommend in the outboardmost bays of the leading edge, although I've seen them farther inboard on a couple RVs. Obviously, if your going to weaken the wing by cutting the leading edge, it's best to do it as far out as possible. Even at their most outboard location, with the adjustment built in, you can have them shine directly toward centerline if you choose or straight out. There is a lot of adjustment available.

good luck.
 
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Why not buy a landing light kit from Glasair and install the light in the cowling.
It will shine on centerline ,is forward of cofg, easy to maintain, shorter wiring, easily upgradable to Xenon. Look on their website for price and picture.
 
Tip Lights

I was also curious about modifying the the batwing tips so that they angled for the tip landing lights to shine more inboard. My friend who does fiberglass work for a living looked at it and said it would be a huge job for me so I opted out. I think that cutting it out and putting foam for the backing would work. Of course, I figure if I wanted to do all of this type of additional glass work, I would have built a composite. No patience for waiting for things to dry, then cleaning up, and sanding, and cleaning up, and filling pinholes, and cleaning up, then sanding, etc..etc...

I am in the process of assembling the Creativair lights. I checked the brightness of one outside on a dark night off my car battery and was surprised at how bright it was. Still not as bright as one landing light in the Cardinal but two together will exceed that. My concern is still aiming them to the centerline. On the Creativair lights, I had to cut the springs in half in order to get the halogen bulb closer to the hole (look on their site for the picture of what the unit looks like). It seems to have done the job.

I'm also considering prewiring to the bottom cowl so if I need more light, I can install them there with some sort of cover to be designed and built.

As to the question of which Vans planes have them installed, their RV-7A has them. The problem with theirs is that the Whelan Nav/Strobe light sticks out and blocks the landing light beam. The way the Creativair led nav and strobe bulb sits, this should not be an issue.

Bottom line is I like a clean look to the plane and the leading edge light is not very eye appealing to me...of course that is my personal preference not a general statement.
 
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Thought this might be pertinent to those with the new -1 tips...

A week or so ago, I emailed Bill Vondane of CreativAir to inquire if he had any plans to change the size and/or layout of any of his lighting kits to take advantage of the larger lighting cut-out in the newer tips.

He said no, he doesn't have plans to change anything or to offer a -1 specific kit, but that he has some new LED based products that will be coming out before Sun N' Fun. Sorry no details.
 
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Clean install of Duckworks L/E light kit

Kahuna said:
I have 2 rv's, one of each type.
The leading edge looks bad, but is functionally far superior.

On my -7 landing light, I cut the hole and fit the lens prior to riveting the L/E together. This allowed me to use the C frame dimpler to really whack those dimples for the lens screws. As a result I didn't get the usual wavy look around the dimples like a squeezer leaves behind, these are really "crisp".
Neal Pannell RV-7 in GA

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I have found that the wing tip lights don't light up the runway very well at all. I have built 4 RV's now and I find the leading edge lights are superior. My RV-7 has wing tip lights and this winter I am going to add leading edge lights. You can get bigger lamps in the leading edge. I am using LEDs for the nav lites and they are great. Made my own up using 18 per side.
 
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