LettersFromFlyoverCountry

LettersFromFlyoverCountry

Well Known Member
Just going over the EAA registration kit in advance of applying for an airworthiness certificate. I notice on one form it asks the number of the last AD complied with. Ugh. I've been building, man. Anyway, is there a logical way to begin the process of detecting all of the ADs that may be posted?

(Also, subject line should be "with," not "withdrawn."not Dumb Droid) [ed. Fixed! dr]
 
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No ADs

Strictly speaking ADs don't apply to experimentals.
In your own best interest, I would check for ADs on you particular engine
and start with your engine builder.
They should advise you of any service bulletins or mandatory ADs that have been issued on the parts used for your engine. I am assuming it's an experimental Lycoming.
 
AD Compliance

Bob,
I've posted a similar question in the past concerning AD's. From what I gather from reading the FAA handout from the local FSDO, we need to record the latest AD posting on the App. of Airworthiness Form. From there, I'm really at a loss as to how one proceeds and what and where should anything be recorded.
I recently spoke with a fellow from the FSDO office and asked whether they could inspect my soon to be completed project. He cautiously stated that they do 'instructional inspections'. There was no firm commitment, but I'm hoping that translates to a yes. The closest DAR is approaching 150 miles from my home base.
Jim Diehl N891DD
RV-7A
Lock Haven, Pa
 
Bob,
I dont want to get into weather the AD's do or dont apply. In my opinion though until I see that they dont apply in the FAR's I will. I can say that there are no AD's on your airplane the only thing that you may want to look at would be your engine and your appliances. IE Mags, ELT, Gascolator, ignition switch, fuel valve and things of that nature. Whether you choose to comply is up to you but taking a good look and giving it some careful thought is a good idea.
Ryan
 
I dont understand the confusion

AD's are really simple, they all have an applicability clause (read AD 2012-03-06 section (c) as an example). In most cases the aircraft (John Smiths RV-7) and engine (Lyclone built by Fred & John) are not listed in the applicability clause and the AD doesnt apply. In some cases (Freds RV-9 has a Lycoming IO-360-L2A with an AVStar Fuel Systems fuel servo containing a part number AV2541801 diaphragm) the AD would apply. Now if the Lyclone Fred and John built had an AVStar Fuel Systems fuel servo containing a part number AV2541801 diaphragm the AD does not apply as it is not a Superior, Lycoming, or Continental engine (it is a Fred and John #1 Lyclone and the data plate should reflect this) however John would be wise to follow the AD's recomendations. Pretty straight forward stuff....but maybe I missed somthing. Russ
 
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AK4x4 said:
AD's are really simple, they all have an applicability clause (read AD 2012-03-06 section (c) as an example). In most cases the aircraft (John Smiths RV-7) and engine (Lyclone built by fred & john) are not listed in the applicability clause and the AD doesnt apply. In some cases (freds RV-9 has a Lycoming IO-360-L2A with an AVStar Fuel Systems fuel servo containing a part number AV2541801 diaphragm) the AD would apply. Pretty straight forward stuff....but maybe I missed somthing. Russ
Click to expand...

While AD's may not be applicable to non-certified engines, props, and airplanes; it is advisable to perform an AD search during your condition inspection and determine if they apply to your aircraft.

The issue is for engines built up from ECi or Superior parts. The AD maybe written for a Lycoming engine, so the question is, does it apply to engines without a single Lycoming part?
 
AK4x4 said:
AD's are really simple, they all have an applicability clause (read AD 2012-03-06 section (c) as an example). In most cases the aircraft (John Smiths RV-7) and engine (Lyclone built by Fred & John) are not listed in the applicability clause and the AD doesnt apply. In some cases (Freds RV-9 has a Lycoming IO-360-L2A with an AVStar Fuel Systems fuel servo containing a part number AV2541801 diaphragm) the AD would apply. Now if the Lyclone Fred and John built had an AVStar Fuel Systems fuel servo containing a part number AV2541801 diaphragm the AD does not apply as it is not a Superior, Lycoming, or Continental engine (it is a Fred and John #1 Lyclone and the data plate should reflect this) however John would be wise to follow the AD's recomendations. Pretty straight forward stuff....but maybe I missed somthing. Russ
Click to expand...

With all due respect, nothing involving FAA paperwork and regulations is simple if you've never done it, or been guided through the process, before. Part of the problem is simply recognizing which parts of your airplane are items that may have ADs against them. Obvious stuff to an A&P. Not so much to some of us who are still learning how to delve into the regulations.
 
VERY recent conversation on ADs

During inspection last Friday. Shades of "who's on first"

What Engine Do you Have?

New Lycoming YIO-360-M1B experimental.

Who built it for you?

Lycoming.

Does it have all ADs complied with?

It's new.

You better check with your engine builder to see if he complied with all ADs.

Ummm.. Yes sir...
 
rzbill said:
During inspection last Friday. Shades of "who's on first"

What Engine Do you Have?

New Lycoming YIO-360-M1B experimental.

Who built it for you?

Lycoming.

Does it have all ADs complied with?

It's new.

You better check with your engine builder to see if he complied with all ADs.

Ummm.. Yes sir...
Click to expand...

If it was a certified Lycoming it would have a statement like "All current ADs complied with" in the paperwork.

Did your YIO engine have any statements in it's paperwork?
 
Somewhere up above in the thread a ways is a question without an answer.

Appreciate that it's not that hard but ...um... I'm not asking the question "is it hard?" :D

In the example of the diaphragm of a fuel servo with a part number #123, how do *I* know if, say, Mattituck used part #1,2,3 when they built the engine? Or any other part for that matter without tearing the engine apart?

In my case, I bought the engine in 2008 and I have a notation that all the ADs were complied with, which means I have to go over all the ADs since 2008 for all the parts on the engine. But wouldn't I need a parts list of all the parts on an engine?
 
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LettersFromFlyoverCountry said:
In my case, I bought the engine in 2008 and I have a notation that all the ADs were complied with, which means I have to go over all the ADs since 2008 for all the parts on the engine. But wouldn't I need a parts list of all the parts on an engine?
Click to expand...

The short answer to your question is "yes"....but the better answer is that for parts that have serial or lot numbers, you call Mahlon and ask him to check your records. I have done this a few times when AD's came out, and always was able to get an answer. I think that I finally asked him to just send a list of all the serialized parts in my engine, and I have that in a file somewhere.

Paul
 
Ironflight said:
The short answer to your question is "yes"....but the better answer is that for parts that have serial or lot numbers, you call Mahlon and ask him to check your records. I have done this a few times when AD's came out, and always was able to get an answer. I think that I finally asked him to just send a list of all the serialized parts in my engine, and I have that in a file somewhere.

Paul
Click to expand...

EXCELLENT! Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks, Paul!
 
In my case, I bought the engine in 2008 and I have a notation that all the ADs were complied with, which means I have to go over all the ADs since 2008 for all the parts on the engine.
Click to expand...
Bad news. If you want to cover everything, you need to go all the way back in time and also check AD's for the "series". Its possible to have recurring AD's from stone age. Also one time AD's that may not be complied with. Example: An engine is overhauled, but the used carb is bolted on. AD's for carb may not be complied with. There aren't too many accessories on these engines. Try this order: Engine Series, Engine Model, starter, gov, magnetos, alternator, vac pump, FI or carb. There are other possibles. If you have a cooler from a cert plane you will find it under that airframe or the cooler mfg. Same goes for AC pump, turbo, etc. So, like Russ said. Piece of cake. All clear now?
 
az_gila said:
If it was a certified Lycoming it would have a statement like "All current ADs complied with" in the paperwork.

Did your YIO engine have any statements in it's paperwork?
Click to expand...

2 points:

I had made the assumption that Lycoming would not sell new engines with known defective parts requiring AD replacement. (Continuing maintenance ADs yes, but not blatant bad parts that were AD'ed for immediate replacement)

I did overlook the fact that my engine is no longer new even though it was purchased new and has not flown and new ADs could exist after my purchase (Yes, sometimes I can be dim)

Now you have my curiosity up Gil. I will look in my Lyc docs regarding the compliance notes......and study the most recent ADs (there are two after my purchase) :eek:
 
rzbill said:
During inspection last Friday. Shades of "who's on first"

What Engine Do you Have?

New Lycoming YIO-360-M1B experimental.

Who built it for you?

Lycoming.

Does it have all ADs complied with?

It's new.

You better check with your engine builder to see if he complied with all ADs.

Ummm.. Yes sir...
Click to expand...


This will make the third time I've asked this question, and I don't believe I've ever gotten an answer.

I have a YIO-360-M1B. Does an AD which applies to an IO-360 (note the absence of the Y) apply to my engine, formally and legally?

I note that many ADs have very, very specific lists of engines to which they apply (O-360-A1A, etc., etc.), but I have yet to see one with the designation YIO or YO listed (IIRC).

(Note that I'm not asking if it's a good idea to ignore them or not...I'm not, but that's a separate discussion. I'm asking about the letter of the law).
 
Often an AD will specify an internal part and say it is used in, but not limited to the following engines....

Example: Oil pump gears part #12345 must be replaced within xxx hrs. These gears are used in, but not limited to the following engines.... If these gears are used in your engine, the AD applies. The gears are not immune to failure just because they are not in a certified engine.

Addition point, Let's say the AD didn't "legally" apply by "letter of the law".
Can you legally sign off a condition inspection stating that "This aircraft was found to be in a condition for safe operation" knowing there is an unsafe set of gears in the oil pump?
 
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Mel said:
Often an AD will specify an internal part and say it is used in, but not limited to the following engines....
Click to expand...

and often it won't. E.g.

This AD applies to fuel injected reciprocating engines manufactured by Lycoming Engines that incorporate externally mounted fuel injection lines (engines with an ''I'' in the prefix of the engine model designation) as listed in the following Table 1​

said table listing

IO-360
-A1A, -A1B, -A1B6, -A1B6D, -A1C, -A1D, -A1D6, -A2A, -A2B, -A3B6, -A3B6D, -B1B, -B1D, -B1E, -B1F, -B1G6, -B2F, -B2F6, -B4A, -C1A, -C1B, -C1C, -C1C6, -C1D6, -C1E6, -C1F, -C1G6, -F1A, -J1A6D, -M1B, -L2A, -M1A​

No "Y" anywhere in the list. Is it applicable to my engine?

Example: Oil pump gears part #12345 must be replaced within xxx hrs. These gears are used in, but not limited to the following engines.... If these gears are used in your engine, the AD applies. The gears are not immune to failure just because they are not in a certified engine.
Click to expand...

I agree with this...if it uses the words "not limited to", it's basically saying this part must be replaced regardless of what engine it may be installed on. Absent this or similar wording, though...?

Addition point, Let's say the AD didn't "legally" apply by "letter of the law".
Can you legally sign off a condition inspection stating that "This aircraft was found to be in a condition for safe operation" knowing there is an unsafe set of gears in the oil pump?
Click to expand...

Not my question...Can I legally sign off a condition inspection stating the same after looking at the AD I quoted above, if I chose not to do what the AD said? (Note I didn't say what's in the AD... :) )
 
A couple of things:

-1- This -- quite obviously -- would make a GREAT Q & A forum at Oshkosh. Chad, are you out there?

-2- Heard back from Mahlon today:

Hope all is well!!! Glad to hear the big flight is near!!!
If you go to the website listed below and enter Lycoming IO-360 in the search field, any AD notes that could be applicable to your engine or accessories should show up in the list. Any non recurring AD’s from before the engine was built are complied with. Any recurring ad’s that apply to the engine or components used would be due when the recurrence was mandated.
Any new AD’s that came out after the engine was made will also be listed.
The only one that comes to mind, that might apply to your engine is 2009-02-03 on Precision fuel servos. But I don’t think it is likely applies.

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/WebSearchDefault?SearchView&Query=IO-360%20Lycoming&SearchOrder=1&SearchMax=0&SearchWV=TRUE&SearchFuzzy=FALSE&Start=1&Count=100#


Good Luck,

----

Also, I should point out, I found 3 ADs to consider:

2009-26-12 -- the ECI Cylinder AD (mine weren't affected but I logged it anyway)
2011-26-04 -- Check of fuel injector lines via Lycoming MSB No. 342F, dated June 4, 2010
2008-08-14 -- The AD Mahlon mentioned, which Mattituck had already logged.
 
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