N941WR

N941WR

Legacy Member
This morning we flew into Rowan County Airport (RUQ) for the SC Breakfast Club meeting. While taxiing to the end of 20 for departure I heard on the Unicom, ?Jumpers away, Rowan County.? At first, I thought it was some people jumping in for a late breakfast. That was quickly dashed by the chatter on the frequency regarding how many jumpers were in the air. Two had landed on the grass, just north of the hangars and one was under canopy at about 3,000?, directly over the runway. That last jumper floated there for a long time while a Piper Cheyenne, a Stinson 108-?, and myself waited patiently for him to land off to the side of the runway. (It surprised me how long it took him (her?) to land and I don?t say that because I and my engine were baking in the hot sun.)

Seeing jumpers at this airport was a surprise and as much as I appreciate the ?sport?, pilots, you must be careful when flying in and around any airport with active jumpers. A jumper in free fall cannot be spotted by a pilot and even one under canopy is difficult to spot as highlighted today when a pilot kept calling for a position report on the jumper while I watched him float down from 3,000?, directly over the runway centerline, under a bright red canopy.

Here?s my question, had an aircraft departed under the jumper, would he have been legal? There certainly was time to do so, safety issues aside.

Question #2, how fast, in FPM, does the ?average? jumper descend when under canopy?
 
Question 2 is 20 feet per second in straight and level flight. If they're really loading the canopy this will increase some. If they turn to a landing this will increase even more. Some parachutes can land faster then airplanes.
 
Jumpers

Several years ago I was flying in North Ga at 5500' in the clear when a freefall parachutist passed about 50' off my left front. Got my attention!
 
We operate nearly every weekend with jumpers. Today, the jumper plane dumped his load at 10k and was in a spiral down to the airport. I was 5 miles out when he announced "Jumpers in the air." He said to do a straight in under him and watch out for the jumpers in the air at 3k. I saw them and set up for a right base after confirming this was the last jumper coming. Communication is key, when in doubt ask. I guess we are just used to the crazies that jump out of airplanes. :p

It would really suck to have a skydiver go through a wing.
 
N941WR said:
Seeing jumpers at this airport was a surprise
Click to expand...

Checking your Notams would have helped the surprise department.
07/001 Airspace Parachute Jumping Exercise See CLT 07/015. 09 JUL 12:00 2011 Until 10 JUL 23:59 2011. Created: 07 JUL 16:21 2011
 
Kahuna said:
Checking your Notams would have helped the surprise department.
07/001 Airspace Parachute Jumping Exercise See CLT 07/015. 09 JUL 12:00 2011 Until 10 JUL 23:59 2011. Created: 07 JUL 16:21 2011
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Kahuna,

You are correct. I did check for NOTAMS this AM but missed it. Big DUH on my part. Based on the radio traffic, apparently I was the only one who didn't know they now have jumpers at RUQ.
 
About 8 days ago I joined the pattern at RUQ to get in some pattern work. I was just off the first touch and go when a jump plane announced they were inbound to drop jumpers. I had no idea where the drop zone was and simply elected to depart the pattern and go some where else. There were other aircraft there that appeared confused about what to do. It did seem odd to me that the jump plane seemed to have no real concern about aircraft in the pattern relative to his jumpers. Perhaps they assumed everyone had local knowledge about their operation. He made one drop from around 5000 and then continued his climb to 10,000 to make another drop. Seemed like it effectively shut the airport down for a long time.

George
 
Check Notams!

Like Kahuna pointed out you need to check your notams.
For permanent skydiving operations the activity is depicted on you sectional chart usually describing in detail when and where on the airport.
Having dropped over 20,000 jumpers I have seen both sides and can tell you that there is no need to panic and leave the area but that would be the best course of action if you are unaware and uninformed of the jumper activity.

While jumpers have the right of way, I know of none that would press for position.
What is really important when you approach a drop zone is to follow procedure when entering the pattern. Jumpers have their own landing zone and it generally does not interfere with landing or departing traffic.
The drop Zone I worked for, for many years had 4 or 5 airplanes at the time and no one had to wait for any skydiver. As Geico pointed out communications is key and a visit from transient pilots to the drop zone for more info is a most welcome but rare event
The most egregious offenders are usually not the pilots who land at the airport but those who transit the drop zone completely oblivious to the potential catastrophe they are about to create.
Jump pilots and skydivers are always looking out for potential traffic conflicts
and will surely do everything they can to avoid injury and accidents.

To answer one of your questions, I don't see any harm in departing
3000 feet below an open parachute.
 
Not something covered real well in flight training.

Other than, "Listen to CTAF or APPR freq when near jump areas which are found on sectionals, watch out for them and that they have the right of way." That was pretty much all my instructor said. Jump areas don't show up on my 496 and I don't think they will be on my GRT HX either. How many of us still carry sectionals on x-c trips? Not much info in the FAR AIM on the subject either.

Jump planes should announce where they are releasing and where their drop zone is in relation to the airport, but rarely I hear that. Mostly just altitude so I have just assumed they were directly overhead. I could have asked the pilot. If I am flying at my home field it makes it much easier knowing their procedures and where they will be landing.

I was entering mid-field crosswind one day in a C172 and I heard jumpers away at 5,000'. By the time I was touching down they were too. I had no idea they would be down that quick. I know next time to just leave the area for 5 minutes.

As far as taking off...If they have not jumped and I know exactly where they are I would go ahead with the takeoff. If they have already jumped I would just wait for them. Safety first. We just never know when there might be a new guy or one lose control and end up on or above the runway right in our departure path.
 
Wayne Gillispie said:
Other than, "Listen to CTAF or APPR freq when near jump areas which are found on sectionals, watch out for them and that they have the right of way." That was pretty much all my instructor said. Jump areas don't show up on my 496 and I don't think they will be on my GRT HX either. How many of us still carry sectionals on x-c trips? Not much info in the FAR AIM on the subject either.
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Since updating my 696 late last year, jump zones now show. Today, while departing the pattern of my uncontrolled airport, the GPS was popping up warnings of "parachute jumpers" within 10 miles. I have not seen that "warning", in this area before. Perhaps it's an XM weather thing............like current TFRs. And of course, I carry sectionals on x-c trips... :) I actually do.

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
From the jumpers perspective

First off, most of my jumps have been at a private field that is almost exclusive to jumpers. I have jumped at a couple DZ's at public fields, but not to the same extent.

About the time that the jump pilot is making the 'jumpers away' call, the first group to exit will be spotting. A lot of this is checking for ground position, but this is also checking clouds and looking for other aircraft in the area. Just as its tough as a pilot to see a small aircraft 2 miles away, its tough as a jumper spotting to see an aircraft some 2 miles below them. Keep that in mind when flying in the area of parachute activities.

In freefall, the jumpers are going roughly straight down about the same speed that a cessna 172 goes forward. Free fliers (any position other than the prototypical belly position) will be going close to the same speed that the RV's can get up to (160 MPH-200MPH depending on position). Things happen quick, and jumpers are very limited on where they can go in freefall.

Under parachute, most drop zones have rules about crossing the runway centerline below 1,000 ft. Most jumpers are used to aircraft taking off and landing around them while under canopy. If you know how many jumpers are in the air and where they are, there is generally not going to be much risk in taking off while they are still in the air.

DZ's will generally be happy to let you talk to the pilots before flying in as well - particularly during the week or bad weather times. If you aren't familiar with what goes on in skydiving, stop by a drop zone on a busy weekend and hang out for a few hours. Don't expect a lot of instructor/pilot interaction on a busy day, but there are typically experienced jumpers around on busy days that are happy to talk about what they do. Take an observer ride on one of the jump planes. Its a bit different than most of the airplane rides that most people make.

Its a lot of fun getting out of the plane too, though not something for the 'If at first you don't succeed' crowd.

If you do hang out, keep in mind that most jumpers are very strong alpha-type personalities. Many think they know everything. The good jumpers know they don't - it can be tough to tell the difference, even when you are constantly in the environment.

Want to make a lot of friends quick? Bring a case of beer by the DZ towards the end of the day. You'll have lots of jumpers happy to talk and you'll generally get a bit less of the 'whuffo' attitude when you hand the jumper a cold one. (Whuffo you jump out of dem planes?)
 
Another skydiver & RV driver POV

Good info so far from some of the skydiver crowd. Here are some additional data points...

I live on, fly my RV out of, and skydive at a local NW DZ (4,000+ jumps). I also have about 500 hours flying jump aircraft. Knowing what I know about the activity, I developed a "E-Brief" that I send to fly-in folks that come to visit on occasion. An excerpt follows with some of the more critical points. This may assist others in learning and conducting aviation activites around it. This is one airports version of the operations, so some things may be slightly different at other airport/DZ's...:

...The dropzone is a privately owned, non-standard, commercial skydiving airport, located 3 miles west of the town of xxx. It is recommended to monitor 119.1 (xxx Approach) and/or 122.9 (CTAF) while at least 10-15 minutes out from the airport as position reports and a 2 minute warning are given by jump aircraft before each parachute drop. Aircraft call signs are ?Skydive 1?, ?Skydive 2?, etc? There may be multiple turboprop jump aircraft aloft at any one time. There is also the possibility of "Aircraft Formation Loads" to assist in large mass freefall formations.

CAUTION: DO NOT OVERFLY THE AIRPORT!​

Mid-field cross entries and overhead approaches are not advisable. Jumpers generally open about 2000? AGL over the airport and can open as far north or south as ? mile beyond the end of the runway. They can also open as high as 14,000' but are generally not a factor up there for local traffic. Jumpers are also free to land where ever they want on the airport, and cross the runway after their jumps. Turboprop jump aircraft load up while on the runway and usually back taxi to the south end for a north departure. It is best to wait until the jump activity subsides (all jumpers on ground) or the jump aircraft departs before attempting a landing. Announce all intentions on 122.9 prior to landing. Give jump aircraft in the pattern right of way.

CAUTION: A high speed descending left downwind leg into the pattern beginning at 4-5000? AGL is typical for turboprop jump aircraft operation (Caravan & Twin Otter). :eek:

Skydiving operates in a vertical plane directly above the few airports that conduct those operations. Since flying operates in a (generally) horizonatal plane, it is the intersection of those to axis that holds potential conflicts. A wide mix of piston and turboprop aircraft are used in skydiver lift operations. The turboprop aircraft have some significant climb and descent profiles that most pilots are not aware of. I have personally rode in one example that had over 10,000' per minute descent rate, that would actually beat the freefallers to the ground. That aircraft would be on the runway loading jumpers as you were descending under canopy from the previous load. Some dropzones (i.e. Eloy, AZ) also occasionally operate hot air ballons to drop jumpers. Obviously these should be easy to spot.

If you image a vertical 'cone' over the airport, (~Surface to 14,000') and avoid it, you are more than likely to avoid the activity. Review the NOTAMS. Familiarize yourself with local landmarks and review the specific airport procedures and layout. Announce your intentions at least 10 miles out and talk with the jump pilots if possible to get an idea what phase the activity is likely to be in (i.e. Jump aircraft departing/climbing; 2 minute call-impending drop; jumpers in the air, jump aircraft in descent). They are also typically in contact with a local approach control or Center controller.

Generally the best time to land is right after the jump aircraft has departed and is climbing to altitude. Best advice is to keep your head on a swivel, build a good SA picture of what is going on around you, and communicate if possible with approach/center and or jump aircraft on local freqs.
My $.02 worth...
 
N941WR said:
This morning we flew into Rowan County Airport (RUQ) for the SC Breakfast Club meeting. While taxiing to the end of 20 for departure I heard on the Unicom, ?Jumpers away, Rowan County.? At first, I thought it was some people jumping in for a late breakfast. That was quickly dashed by the chatter on the frequency regarding how many jumpers were in the air. Two had landed on the grass, just north of the hangars and one was under canopy at about 3,000?, directly over the runway. That last jumper floated there for a long time while a Piper Cheyenne, a Stinson 108-?, and myself waited patiently for him to land off to the side of the runway. (It surprised me how long it took him (her?) to land and I don?t say that because I and my engine were baking in the hot sun.)

Seeing jumpers at this airport was a surprise and as much as I appreciate the ?sport?, pilots, you must be careful when flying in and around any airport with active jumpers. A jumper in free fall cannot be spotted by a pilot and even one under canopy is difficult to spot as highlighted today when a pilot kept calling for a position report on the jumper while I watched him float down from 3,000?, directly over the runway centerline, under a bright red canopy.

Here?s my question, had an aircraft departed under the jumper, would he have been legal? There certainly was time to do so, safety issues aside.

Question #2, how fast, in FPM, does the ?average? jumper descend when under canopy?
Click to expand...

A good friend of ours has his aerobatic box next to the airport and says it is impossible to practice any during the weekend. Bill I was planning on attending RUQ Bfast and elected not to because of the Jumper Notam.
 
flight overhead?

We have jumpers at a local public field....really scares me spitless when I think about it!....
the 'cone' above the field mentioned is a good visual...but of course, add any wind, and the cone may encompass the circuit, or certainly aircraft joining the circuit on a typical crosswind at mid-field are in conflict!
Then there's many of us who punch in airfields as waypoints in our GPS, intending to overfly 'B' while enroute from 'A' to 'C', at an altitude of 5500', thinking we are well above any possible conflict.
Hmmm. Jump planes spiralling down at 10,000 fpm, and invisible free-falling bodies below 14,000'. Scary!
 
N427EF said:
Like Kahuna pointed out you need to check your notams.
For permanent skydiving operations the activity is depicted on you sectional chart usually describing in detail when and where on the airport...
Click to expand...
Good points but when a jump school sets up shop, it may take a few cycles for the symbol to show up on the charts.

Like I said, I have nothing against jumpers and have some good friends who are/where very active jumpers and riggers. It is just my personal choice to avoid airports with active jumpers.

This was reinforced a few years back when I attended a major fly-in in VA and they had active jumpers as a few hundred planes came and went, war birds did formation passes, and many pilots lined up to depart. In that case, the school should have shut down (and been compensated by the fly-in committee). BTW, that was a great fly-in but I had a LOT of safety concerns and haven?t been back since.
 
Geico266 said:
It would really suck to have a skydiver go through a wing.
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...or through the prop and into the cockpit like that mid-air collision between a biplane and skydiver at an airshow in New Hampshire a few years back. The skydiver wound up decapitated but the bite mark on his arm proved that he struck the pilot squarely in the face.
 
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