M

Mark Bolton

Active Member
We just got a chat from our Chapter safety hat that when I heard it I just had to say DOH ! ? Amongst all the eminently sensible things he said (Cheers Bob Grimsted! ) was a particular clanger.

Here goes - I was always trained to yell "Clear prop" before hitting the "outa here " button. Now isn't that the dumbest thing ? It only works when pilots or ground crew hear it and only when they have the appropriate training. Probably has it's roots in the military.

Here's the "I almost killed a bloke" take. Pilot yells "clear prop" and an aero modeler who was minutely examining the cowls pops his head up and says "What ?" Good job he did it quickly.

Fact is "Clear Prop" only means anything to pilots or trained ground crew who would already have the situational awareness never to put them selves in harms way in the first place.

Wouldn't " Any person near this plane stand up and move away" and wait ten seconds before going the juice, make a whole lot more sense in a recreational aviation setting?

I have almost killed plenty of people in my involvement in exploration geology - fortunately "almost' means a miss is as good as a mile but we learned from this.

If I ever had killed a bloke I would probably wind up in a nut house picking spots of light off the wall.

Bob had a few other wise words but this will suffice.

Any how this is a preamble.

What is the guts on aerobating RVs ? Is there a bank of knowledge on such an activity?

I am prompted to start this thread by some hanger talk about guys getting killed in RVs that deserved Darwin Awards. This might be true, but as a Christian I cant abide such talk. Life is our most precious gift and we are all of us idiots once in a while.

I am a low time pilot with Chipmonk and Tiger Moth time. I am going to be flying an RV-4 , of my own soon. I absolutely love aerobatics but can see that to aerobat the RV-4 means feeling it out and understanding the physics of what you are trying to do. So my question to the brains trust is " Is there a proper set of handling notes on RV aerobatics ?"

Regards

Mark
 
Pet Peave!

Mark, you just hit on one of my pet peaves. How many times do you hear "Clear Prop" then hear the starter motor within a couple of microseconds? Happens over 95% of the time.
Hey Guys, when you do yell, wait at least a several seconds and watch for someone vacating the prop area.
 
Mell Keep telling them

You are so right. Most of the regs and "here we go " stuff are military procedures in the face of military conflict. As a Christian peacnick. I feel a bit embarased nailing my colours up. What ever hapens my air plane comes first. . Fiddle and guess.

Hope this helps.

Mark
 
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Hi Ho

Danny 7 . I do appreciate your best wishes - you find your way here wise you get looked after and dont have to buy your own beer. Hells titts will that ****ing thing ever fly? Just call me impatient .
 
Danny7 said:
gotta love aussie colour
Click to expand...

The color has me rollin' (and it gets right through the autocensors), but the topic is a good one.

On the clear prop issue, it may be more a case of execution fault than one of where it originated. "Clear" may have been a military thing, or it may have been from early pilots that saw one too many ugly prop hits on flesh, so they devised the procedure. Those that do it too fast just aren't doing it correctly (IMHO).

Often in the military you'd have a plane captain or a crew chief, and when you said clear, you'd look at the PC, who'd look around the aircraft and give you a thumbs up...then you hit the starter (or signal for start air in a jet).

Since most of us don't have PC's standing by, its now up to us to say clear...then actually clear the area. I look around in all directions before I mash the starter, so there is a large pregnant pause. Like Mel, I've seen too many examples of "clear" hitting the air as the starter engages and the blades make their first swipe. Not sure if they think that they need to start the motor before someone runs in under the prop, or what...but your story about the bloke that popped up and said "what" is a classic example of why ya yell, look, then mash (or turn the key).

In the case of your question of aerobatics in a -4, since you have some time in some pretty cool airplanes, you probably know the best way to keep yourself from getting a Darwin nom is to approach training in a methodical, humble way, know your limitations and expand the envelope slowly. Don't want to sound preachy, and I don't have any -4 time, but there are guys on here that can probably give you some good techniques and numbers for RV-4 aerobatics.

And no worries mate on being a Christian Peacenick (won't reuse the full term :D)...there are Christian (or secular) Warriors (who also believe in peace) willing to go into harms way to protect your freedom and right to be a peacenick...and they're from your country, mine and others! And that's meant in a very positive way...all of our colors/colours can fly together! ;)

Cheers Mate!
Bob
 
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dumb 'n dumber

I have said 'clear' a hundred times.

THen I heard a guy say ' clear PROP!'

Duh. THAT"s WAAAAY better...duh, now I know what to clear! eh?

Then one day a few blokes wuz milling around their planes, and when I called ' clear prop'.....one looked at me, gave the site the once-over, and responded ' prop's all-clear'.
wow, another lite bulb goes off, someone is actually verifying that the prop is clear of hazards.
There's no way we'd see a dog run up to water the nosewheel, or a big tumbleweed, or plastic bag blow under the nose.

I'm thinking the old idea of having a horn under the cowl isn't so crazy for about a dozen uses! ( taxiing, attracting the fueler, shoo'ing birds etc.)

my $.02
 
Far from comprehensive but this report was written by Barry Tempest, a very experienced display pilot and former CAA senior examiner in the UK.
One problem with the -4 is that the aerobatic envelope precludes dual coaching and the handling is very different with an aft CG compared to a forward one.
I used to part-own a Chipmunk and in comparison, the RV-4 is a lot easier to aerobat with no diving for speed required and very little rudder needed to coordinate.
Just watch the speed as you're coming down
 
clear prop

This is important! We all have nightmares about the deadly effects of that fan in the front of our fun.
I try to be aware of everyone in the vacinity of the airplane before I get in, then double check on them while I begin my check list, then flip on the strobe before calling "Clear!" I always do so with the canopy open enough to be heard, and look before hitting the starter.
Between the checking, the strobes and the warning, I feel confident in starting the engine.
This is likely the most dangerous moment for people on the ground around an airplane. We need to always be vigilant, and never in a hurry.

Jim
 
While there is absolutely no problem with turning on the strobes before starting, don't depend on it doing any good. If a person is in the vicinity of the prop, he will most likely not see the strobes. They are typically not visible from that area.
 
THX Garage Guy

You hear about "learning curves" and for us newbies the curves change very fast in our favor with every piece of information we may never have assimilated yet. IMHO the recognition that "you dont know what you dont know" is proof that we low hour pilots are diligent in loading our selves up with a study responsibility.

The best way has always been hangar flying with a healthy dose of skepticism.

I just went on a chapter training course and was so pleased that talented people cared about training us ," love it guys or lose it" EXPERIMENTAL beyond reproach, by making sure we were on the lifeboat list. Very crisp and professional.

I am heartened by every time I am in my chapter blokes just seem to be deploying the safety net for me, C of A, personally, emotionally, technically. I guess they wouldn't be so understanding unless they had walked in my shoes before.

Flat out I must say I am really scared to fly that plane . Wiser heads than I - indeed far tougher blokes than me. Told me the wept their guts out watching someone else test fly the plane they just got done building.

No Way in the wide world can a low time pilot and builder master such a work load - any little snag? - an experienced pilot might get it back in the barn. Why **** about guys?

I have surprised my self in my appraisal of my own skills - I thought I would be much more dispassionate. But ****'s Titts I am wrong.


I am not the Lone Ranger , posts which convey to other pilots - lots of guys have been killed - time does this. It hurts.

I would hope better practices saves lives.
 
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Got a lesson Saturday...

OK, maybe it wasn't exactly safety related, but it made me change my pre-start checklist anyway. For almost 40 years, I have always waited after the "Clear prop" before hitting the starter. Probably due to a good first instructor.

Saturday my $1000+ digital Nikon sitting on the wing didn't hear me. After the short cross country and the plane was in the hangar and the sun had set, I noticed it wasn't in its usual spot. I may have uttered a phrase or two that my early Sunday School teachers would not have approved and called the friend I had been visiting. He went to the airport and found it--virtually unharmed, except for a broken lens hood. Still another lesson learned.

I am adding a double-check for inanimate objects to my pre-flight. I really don't like feeling that stupid.

Bob
 
Clear Everything

I think the military origin is correct. When I go through the ground checks on Uncle Sam's aircraft I always have a crew chief nearby (on the intercom) helping me check everything I can't see. So before I move any surface on the aircraft I'll check with the crew chief: "clear ailerons, clear rudder, etc." And every time I wait for the crew chief to respond "clear" before I move that particular item.

So my guess is "clear prop" is one of the things the GA community has held on to. But as it's been discussed, the prop is just one of the things you have to clear. Probably the most overlooked area is the one behind the aircraft. If someone is standing right behind the aircraft, they're going to get an unpleasant blast as soon as the engine lights off. And if there's any debris it could cause an injury. So I always look behind me as well as scan the entire 360 around the aircraft before hitting the starter.

-Matt
402BD
 
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