R

Rick_Luck

Member
After spending the past couple of weeks laying on my back or side inside my cockpit "retrofitting" my RV9 with wall insulation, aleron push rod boots and now heated seats, I started to think how much easier it would have been for at least some of these things to have been done when the plane was built (or maybe even provisons made for installing them later). I'll grant you that a lot of builders who fly in southern climates wouldn't want or need some of these improvements, but my plane was built in Ohio. After talking to several builders who all claimed their biggest single improvement for keeping their planes warm in the winter came from the aleron boots, I got to thinking that probably no plane built above the Mason Dixon Line should be built without them. As far as I'm concerned, the same might go for insulating the cockpit or firewall.

I almost forgot the oil cooler shutter I have on order and yet to install so I can get rid of my winter blank-off plates, and maybe be able to make a southern trip some day without having to stop somewhere in route to pull the cowling and remove them when I get into a warmer climate.

Since many little items like these are 10 times easier to do during the building process, I was wondering if anyone has started a thread for new builders about adding things to their projects that they feel should be "standard equipment" with any kit sold by Vans. What would you add to the list?
 
fuel pump

The choice of fuel pumps (carb or injected) should be an option. Since Van's sells both, why make a special parts order when working at the firewall forward stage? The pump would also be easier to install when the fuse is under construction.
Steve
 
wall insulation?

Rick_Luck said:
After spending the past couple of weeks laying on my back or side inside my cockpit "retrofitting" my RV9 with wall insulation, aleron push rod boots and now heated seats,
Click to expand...
Hi Rick - I'm way behind you but agree with you. Since it gets darn cold here and I love to fly in winter, I'm very interestedin what you're doing. Can you post some pictures of your wall insulation? It would be good to see so I don't do anything to prevent it's insulation. I was thinking about insulation vs. wire runs.

I'm going to go with the full cold weather package like you're putting in right from the outset.

Thanks!
 
Standard items

What a novel idea. Whether the items come standard or not is something for Van's to consider, but your idea of a single site to review builder mods is GREAT. I live in Florida, but put seat heaters in my -8 seats when I sewed them up. Why? One trip out west in cooler weather with my wife freezing in the back, and that will be it for her. I'll be solo on the next trip and she'll be sipping cocktails in first class somewhere. I could probably convince her to pick me up though. I digress.

Here is a minimal list of what I would consider an upgrade to a "standard" configuration:

Heated Seats
Aileron control rod boots
The Oil Cooler regulator thing
The Doug Bell tail wheel(or similar for the non -A guys)
A better grade fuel selector
A routing for rear seat heat engineered into the tandem kits.

There are many other little things that would be nice. Perhaps TWO catagories in the thread. One for MUST HAVE and one for NICE ADDITIONS.
 
Where do you get them

I'm building a 9A and working on the fuel tanks now. It'll be a while before I'm flying. Flying in the winter in Michigan is cold, so I am most interested in these mods. Where do you get these goodies you've mentioned?
 
HI all...am curious about the A. push rod boots??? Whats the scoop here, and the reason for installing??? Is it for reduction of drag/improved airflow???
Could someone post a picture of this mod???? Thanks

From Rosie: My buddy Rick Gray sent this picture to me years ago :D
 
Last edited by a moderator:
TerryWighs said:
HI all...am curious about the A. push rod boots??? Whats the scoop here, and the reason for installing??? Is it for reduction of drag/improved airflow???
Could someone post a picture of this mod???? Thanks
Click to expand...
I am also interested in the mod and am at the point in my build where I would also appreciate some information on how this mod is accomplished. I did a search using "cold cabin" and read several threads that talk about the need for it but I have yet to find any details of the construction. Can anyone provide some details on this? I am at the fuselage build stage where all of this area is still open and accessible. I would like to see some pictures and have some comments on what materials were used and what construction techniques were used for these boots.

Terry, the reason for this has nothing to do with drag or airspeed or anything associated with airplane performance. It is for the purpose of keeping your little fanny from freezing while flying in cold weather. There is a great deal of air that flows into the cabin from the openings to the wings where the aileron push rods leave the cabin and enter the wing. This air flows directly underneath your little tush and freezes the beegeezus out of you if you do not block it.
 
Control stick boots

These are boots that are mounted on the hole in the fuselage where the aileron control stick comes through. They are cone shaped and prevent a NorEaster from blowing through the hole and up through the control stick on to YOUR control stick. :D

My mom made mine from a pattern and rip stop nylon. They are available from a couple of different sources. Easy to install.

Even here in AZ they are very beneficial.



TerryWighs said:
HI all...am curious about the A. push rod boots??? Whats the scoop here, and the reason for installing??? Is it for reduction of drag/improved airflow???
Could someone post a picture of this mod???? Thanks
Click to expand...
 
I am also interested in the mod and am at the point in my build where I would also appreciate some information on how this mod is accomplished. I did a search using "cold cabin" and read several threads that talk about the need for it but I have yet to find any details of the construction. Can anyone provide some details on this? I am at the fuselage build stage where all of this area is still open and accessible. I would like to see some pictures and have some comments on what materials were used and what construction techniques were used for these boots.
Click to expand...

Here are notes and photos of how I made the aileron pushrod boots for my RV-6:

http://thervjournal.com/cold.html#boots
 
Flightline Interiors makes and sells aileron boots as well. I haven't purchased them yet myself but was planning to once I get my fuselage kit.

Click Here!

--Ken
 
Heated seats?

The boots from Flightline look like they'll do the trick for the pushrods, and they're inexpensive.

Are the heated seats for real. I have them in my car and it sure makes it nice on those cold mornings. Who offers the heated seats?

Thanks.
 
Map Box is a must have

In these relatively small airplanes there has to be a place for the maps, fuel sampler, rudder gust lock, flight guide, etc. Cockpit clutter is a pain on cross country flights. The all in one electronic instruments leave plenty of room on the right side for the map box. You won't be sorry if you install one. Van's has one in every one of the factory planes, even the RV-8's.

Bruce Reynolds
Rv-6A
 
Sam Buchanan said:
Here are notes and photos of how I made the aileron pushrod boots for my RV-6:

http://thervjournal.com/cold.html#boots
Click to expand...
Thanks Sam, your website is exactly what I was looking for. Now that you gave your link here I realized I had actually been to your site last year sometime researching this issue. At that time I was not on the fuselage and consequently either lost the link or did not bookmark it. I have done so now. By the way, at what stage of the build would you recommend adding this mod? Or, is this a mod that can be done easily after the fuselage is finished?

Thanks,
 
RV7Guy said:
These are boots that are mounted on the hole in the fuselage where the aileron control stick comes through. They are cone shaped and prevent a NorEaster from blowing through the hole and up through the control stick on to YOUR control stick. :D

My mom made mine from a pattern and rip stop nylon. They are available from a couple of different sources. Easy to install.

Even here in AZ they are very beneficial.
Click to expand...

Well, for sure these boots are a solution for a problem with my -7A.

I was flying yesterday and once again noticed cold air coming up through the stick hole in the seat between my legs. I keep pushing the stick wrap part of the seat cushion back down but the cold air just keeps coming. After a while it gets down right uncomfortable. :)

Eight to ten inches of snow finally melted around here as the temp has swung from 12F a week ago to 65F today. Our 2200' grass runway was a little soggy but the H6/MT combo easily pulled the RV through it and into the air. It was a first flight out of here since it snowed and melted. Landing was a little dicey but with full aft stick the nose wheel acted sort of like a skid-sled and all worked out OK. I've stopped trying to keep the nose wheel pant looking nice, it is a mess.

Flying is an elixir for me. Sometimes, when in flight, I wonder if we really belong here, the act of being detached from earth is so relaxing...no wonder astronauts love what they do.

dd
 
Steve....thanks for the enlightenment...I have yet to ride in an RV, let alone experience gluteal Max hypothermia... :eek: I will build on and be sure to install boots/insulation, etc.
 
Replying to several of you who wanted more information, here's a copy of an email response I sent to one person. Sorry, I'm not computer literate enough to do pictures.

"I was looking around for insulation and first checked the Home Depot type stores for either a thin duct insulation or the foil backed bubble wrap type. I ruled both out. The foil faced bubble wrapped is really nice, and very light but I was hesitant to put that much "poly" into my cockpit in case I ever have a fire. I'm not totally adverse to introducting non-aviation materials into my cockpit, but I try to keep them to a minimum. the duct wrap insulation was fireprooft but too thick and wasn't faced on both sides.

I checked Aircraft Spruce and some of the other suppliers but found aviation insulation to be more in line with sound deadening and also rather expensive. I finally found a good product at Flightline Interiors. Mostly used for firewall insulation, it can also be used as general insulation and is reasonably priced. It's a little heavier than I'd like but not too bad and unless you don't mind your airplane looking like the Space Shuttle, you have to cover it with an upholstry, which means adding more weight. I ended up buying an aviation vinyl (I think from Aircraft Spruce) and then glueing it to .016 2024T3 Aluminum and making panels for each compartment of the interior to cover the foil faced insulation. Not as nice as a factory supplied interior, but also a fraction of the price.

While on Flightline Interiors web site, I saw that they also make the aleron rod boots. I remembered reading about them on some posts on the Vans Airforce site. Do a search and you'll come up with various threads on them I think. Other companies make them too, but when I saw them at Flightlline Interiors, I decided not to look any further. I took a trip to Ohio about a month ago and met some other RV'ers along the way. I had the insulation in at the time, but not the interior vinyl or boots. They all said that whatever I did, get the boots installed if I wanted to stay warm during winter flight. They told me that the boots were the thing that gave them the most noticable improvement in trying to make the planes warmer.

Hopefully they are right."

PS: The one thing I did for that trip, since I didn't have the boots installed yet was to use a "Seasonal" removable caulk, purchased from our local Menards store (a wonderful aviation product for airplanes that have to come apart every year for inspections) and caulked all the openings in the floor, like around seat belt anchor points & floor panel openings. I also made some plastic seals around the rod that traverses the cockpit for actuating the flaps. I also used some electrical tape to better seal the boots for the control sticks. All in all, I was much warmer than last years trip to Denver in March.
 
heated seats

dhusk said:
The boots from Flightline look like they'll do the trick for the pushrods, and they're inexpensive.

Are the heated seats for real. I have them in my car and it sure makes it nice on those cold mornings. Who offers the heated seats?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

There was a group buy on the heating units a while back, I tried to find it, but it is not available on the search function, or in the "group buy" forum.

perhaps someone who has bought the heaters will remember the vendor and post the name, or maybe Doug can add it to the "group buy" forum.

Mike
 
Thanks

I never cease to be amazed at the responses on this board.

Thanks Jekyll.

I knew the info was out there, just couldn't find it.

Mike
 
Cockpit Heat

I have an RV6 fitted out very much like Sam Buchanan describes in his website...Aileron boots, dual heat muffs, etc. and it all works well but I have the following as well. My heat muffs feed separate FW heat valves, one for each seat. I also have about one inch square pieces of foam rubber sealing the corrigations in the baggage area bulkhead with a tonneau cover over the baggage compartment. The canopy has "D" weather strip (local discount lumber yard stuff) around the aft skirt and the side skirts are braced, like RV 7's now have, to prevent the sides from spreading out inflight. The canopy leaks very little. I have NO FW insulation as well as no floor or wall panels fwd of the spar. Aft of the spar is upholstered. My muffs are Rick Robins with no spring, or steel wool inside to increase the heat and only baffles that Robbin's built into the inlet side of each muff. Result...I fly very comfortably at about +15 on the ground (Sorry, OAT is not available) and can also fly in the colder above zero temps with a jacket unzipped a few inches and light jersey gloves. The heat system is straining to heat the cockpit at this point and the bare interior portions by the legs are just too cold to allow for much heat to circulate at any below zero ground temps. Now, this is Minnesota winter flying but it still allows for good flying at least 10 months out of the year and, on some select days, yearlong. In building I would suggest the aileron boots, dual muffs with dual heat valves during construction...the rest can be easily added later. Also, the new RV side by sides have a diffuser built in the center which was not in the RV6's. We were on our own for a heat system and I have no knowledge on how Van's new system works but it does not look like enough to me. BTW, Rick Robbins builds a different muff for each side of the exhaust as one is shorter to prevent interferring with the cowl so order from him directly so you get the right combination.

Dick DeCramer
RV6 N500DD
0-032 Hartzell CS
160 hours
Northfield, MN
 
Electrically-Heated Vest

Per a related forum thread, another option for rear seat heat is to wear an electrically-heated vest as cold-weather motorcycle riders do. As I recall, you need a vest that produces 45 watts, or more, to be effective. The current draw is in the neighborhood of 4 amps; not bad. The vests typically have a heated collar, front pad(s), and rear pad(s). Most vests come with a 12vdc quick disconnect (in case you forget to uplug when exiting) and a variable-power (heat) control. Zip-on sleeves are sometimes an option also.

Here's a link to one supplier; there are many other sources/brands/prices.

http://www.aerostich.com

Happy Holidays and Stay Warm!

Bill Palmer
 
You must log in or register to reply here.