What I read was nothing formal...

" Yesterday's opening of Camp Scholler has lots of us pining for Oshkosh. Although there's no RV Builder's BBQ this year (the up-front cash was going to be too much for me this year). "
 
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I would like to see someone set a time/place for a very informal get-together. Just a bring-your-own-cooler and chair sort of thing. I would suggest Thursday evening near the camp store near the registration entrance. There is a pretty large area near there. Anyone up for something like that? Tuesday night might be good also. At least we could swap some stories and see old friends. I can bring a sign...

Bob Kelly
 
Nothing Formal

Bob needed a break. The BBQ was an incredible amount of work and he didn't get to enjoy the event. Maybe on odd numbered years.

I'm confident there will be a few get-togethers but nothing formal.
 
I had a long post on it on the blog some months ago. (There was a link back to it in this week's Hotline). I also still have the BBQ Web site active.

The problem is two-fold. One is monetary, the other is more emotional.

The first is that the bigger the BBQ got, the greater the initial cash outlay needed to be in order to keep the possibility of me taking a big financial bath to a minimum. Between the tent, the campsites, and the food, the tickets don't cover the cost (and,in my opinion, shouldn't) and because of the grassroots nature of the event, it very much was at the whim of mother nature. So I could plan, say, for 300 people to show up and buy accordingly, but one mis-timed thunderstorm, and I'm left holding a pretty big bag.

This was solved last year because Stein -- unbeknownst to me -- had solicited funds from some vendors to make it possible. We had some money left over, in fact, and it was donated to some worthwhile charities (Financials and information on this was and is on the BBQ page and the charities were written up in the Hotline. What? You don't get the Hotline?).

The work involved was not -- repeat NOT -- an issue. I loved doing it and would like to do it again.

But, as I've written before, I can't ask vendors for money. It's just a thing with me and there was no indication that any was going to be forthcoming on a voluntary basis and I simply didn't want to lose a few thousand dollars. A few hints here on VAF netted only a contribution from Tony Partain (thanks, Tony!) and it was kind of clear that with the economy tanking, getting some contributions for an event which is almost anti-Oshkosh (constantly bombarded with advertising) in nature was going to be problematic.

Also, when Van's approached me to combine with their Thursday dinner, I accepted, but then it also got me thinking as to whether the BBQ was still going to be a grassroots affair?

I've been to the Thursday dinner and I appreciate everythign that Van's does with it, but I don't want the BBQ to be like the Thursday dinner, which I don't find socially enjoyable and relaxing. It's an entirely different "vibe" from what I always envisioned for the BBQ. I've thought we achieved that out in the campground, and people seemed to recognize that.

After last year's BBQ, after he helped build it, Stein said to me, partly kidding I'm sure, "it's become too commercial." Partly true. So this year I'd planned not to have door prizes. People should come just to come, and not to get door prizes. Anyway, I'm very protective of the grassroots "vibe." And also, Darwin -- who is the other half of this endeavor -- wasn't sure he'd be able to attend this year.

To me the BBQ was such a perfect evening that embodied everything great about RV building and Oshkosh, that the prospect of having it degrade was unacceptable. Oh, if only I could transfer the curse of perfectionism to my RV-7A project!

The other "final straw," (this is the emotional part) actually, was the article in Kitplanes which, while it didn't mention me by name, certainly alluded to me and -- in my opinion -- completely misrepresented me -- I thought foolishly -- in order to make a point that served the interest of the writer.

That was his right and while I disagreed with it, what really bothered me was the number of people on the RV Yahoogroup (which I ran at the time) who chimed in that despite the fact I might have a point, it wasn't one worth agreeing with because it might make the writer mad and the writer had -- and has -- a very important Web site; one that they didn't want to disappear.

To be honest with you: I felt pretty hurt by the whole thing, even though -- looking back -- I guess I didn't really have the right to expect certain courtesies. I still think friendship shouldn't be sacrificed so easily and it occurred to me that a few people who ate the food and drank my beer at the BBQ (keep in mind I'm talking about a FEW), were not, in fact, my friends at all. I didn't think I'd done anything to deserve that sort of treatment from either the writer or his supporters and, frankly, it disillusioned me to my view of the "RV community," which probably wasn't real in the first place.

And that conflicted with the entire purpose of the BBQ. It's traditionally been my way of getting together with friends at Oshkosh, and when I can't even catch the benefit of the doubt for doing nothing more than building the RV the way I want to, I realized I needed to step back and be more selective in how I put this thing on.

At the same time, some of the RVers who volunteered were feuding with each other and it seemed like the entire RV community was becoming too much like the rest of the world, and Oshkosh -- for me -- is a break from the rest of the world.

When I pulled back from the "community," last spring (and I still don't mix with it that much anymore), it was on this realization that my ideal of an RV community wasn't realistic. There was a lot of feuding going on. And on rivetbangers, someone pointed out that they welcomed me back because it appeared I'd sold out. That the BBQ had become so popular that I'd become part of the RV aristocracy, something I couldn't really avoid. I agreed there actually IS an RV aristocracy and that also runs counter to my particular sensibilities. There is a growing judgmental tone in the community now that wasn't there just a few years ago. And it's simply not for me.

Anyway, geez, what a ramble, eh?

I'll be in the same place at Oshkosh, and I'll still have a cooler and a small grill (I think Stein is donating the big grill he bought for the event to EAA Chapter 25. I hope if we do this next year, we can borrow it from 25.), and some chairs and I hope my friends will still stop by as time allows to share some of their time.

As I said, I'd like to try it again next year. I've certainly got the organizational part of it down pat. But coming up with a mechanism to guarantee the thing financially (and a plan to rebate money to those RV-businesses who cover the shortfall) is beyond my ability. I'd need someone to step forward and take that on.

In the meantime, if you can stop by the tent any evening during Oshkosh this year, there won't be hundreds of people there, but a nightly gathering of a dozen or so folks sitting around? I like THAT. If y'all want to do that on Thursday like Bob suggests... it works for me.

The BBQ started in '03 with a small handful of folks from the old Yahoogroup stopping by... Darwin, Kevin and Sandy Faris, and about 10 others.... the campsite "just to hang out" and that's what we need to get back to.
 
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Bob,

Thanks for sharing some of your thoughts. I know that had to be tough, but perhaps we ALL needed that. RV'ers need leadership, just like any other group, and now and then a little perspective doesn't hurt, either. Now, there isn't any way you could pull out of this "community;" we wouldn't let you. And you have earned whatever place you think you are entitled to. There isn't one person who has attended your BBQ's that didn't come away feeling they had a great time. A little heartburn maybe, but a great time nonetheless.

Now, about that informal thing I mentioned. I said Thursday before I thought about Van's more formal gathering. Perhaps we should not conflict, although it may well be a different group, anyway. Tuesday might be better. Wednesday EAA has a bunch of stuff for chapter people, so I know that wouldn't be a good evening. Then again, if you feel an "any night" deal would work, don't be afraid to say what you think. Seems you have had some recent practice on that!! All we need to do is have our ducks in a row a week or so before the big show. That's about as much waffling as I can think of.

Bob Kelly
 
Bob Where is your tent located?

I had a long post on it on the blog some months ago. (There was a link back to it in this week's Hotline). I also still have the BBQ Web site active.

The problem is two-fold. One is monetary, the other is more emotional.

The first is that the bigger the BBQ got, the greater the initial cash outlay needed to be in order to keep the possibility of me taking a big financial bath to a minimum. Between the tent, the campsites, and the food, the tickets don't cover the cost (and,in my opinion, shouldn't) and because of the grassroots nature of the event, it very much was at the whim of mother nature. So I could plan, say, for 300 people to show up and buy accordingly, but one mis-timed thunderstorm, and I'm left holding a pretty big bag.

This was solved last year because Stein -- unbeknownst to me -- had solicited funds from some vendors to make it possible. We had some money left over, in fact, and it was donated to some worthwhile charities (Financials and information on this was and is on the BBQ page and the charities were written up in the Hotline. What? You don't get the Hotline?).

The work involved was not -- repeat NOT -- an issue. I loved doing it and would like to do it again.

But, as I've written before, I can't ask vendors for money. It's just a thing with me and there was no indication that any was going to be forthcoming on a voluntary basis and I simply didn't want to lose a few thousand dollars. A few hints here on VAF netted only a contribution from Tony Partain (thanks, Tony!) and it was kind of clear that with the economy tanking, getting some contributions for an event which is almost anti-Oshkosh (constantly bombarded with advertising) in nature was going to be problematic.

Also, when Van's approached me to combine with their Thursday dinner, I accepted, but then it also got me thinking as to whether the BBQ was still going to be a grassroots affair?

I've been to the Thursday dinner and I appreciate everythign that Van's does with it, but I don't want the BBQ to be like the Thursday dinner, which I don't find socially enjoyable and relaxing. It's an entirely different "vibe" from what I always envisioned for the BBQ. I've thought we achieved that out in the campground, and people seemed to recognize that.

After last year's BBQ, after he helped build it, Stein said to me, partly kidding I'm sure, "it's become too commercial." Partly true. So this year I'd planned not to have door prizes. People should come just to come, and not to get door prizes. Anyway, I'm very protective of the grassroots "vibe." And also, Darwin -- who is the other half of this endeavor -- wasn't sure he'd be able to attend this year.

To me the BBQ was such a perfect evening that embodied everything great about RV building and Oshkosh, that the prospect of having it degrade was unacceptable. Oh, if only I could transfer the curse of perfectionism to my RV-7A project!

The other "final straw," (this is the emotional part) actually, was the article in Kitplanes which, while it didn't mention me by name, certainly alluded to me and -- in my opinion -- completely misrepresented me -- I thought foolishly -- in order to make a point that served the interest of the writer.

That was his right and while I disagreed with it, what really bothered me was the number of people on the RV Yahoogroup (which I ran at the time) who chimed in that despite the fact I might have a point, it wasn't one worth agreeing with because it might make the writer mad and the writer had -- and has -- a very important Web site; one that they didn't want to disappear.

To be honest with you: I felt pretty hurt by the whole thing, even though -- looking back -- I guess I didn't really have the right to expect certain courtesies. I still think friendship shouldn't be sacrificed so easily and it occurred to me that a few people who ate the food and drank my beer at the BBQ (keep in mind I'm talking about a FEW), were not, in fact, my friends at all. I didn't think I'd done anything to deserve that sort of treatment from either the writer or his supporters and, frankly, it disillusioned me to my view of the "RV community," which probably wasn't real in the first place.

And that conflicted with the entire purpose of the BBQ. It's traditionally been my way of getting together with friends at Oshkosh, and when I can't even catch the benefit of the doubt for doing nothing more than building the RV the way I want to, I realized I needed to step back and be more selective in how I put this thing on.

At the same time, some of the RVers who volunteered were feuding with each other and it seemed like the entire RV community was becoming too much like the rest of the world, and Oshkosh -- for me -- is a break from the rest of the world.

When I pulled back from the "community," last spring (and I still don't mix with it that much anymore), it was on this realization that my ideal of an RV community wasn't realistic. There was a lot of feuding going on. And on rivetbangers, someone pointed out that they welcomed me back because it appeared I'd sold out. That the BBQ had become so popular that I'd become part of the RV aristocracy, something I couldn't really avoid. I agreed there actually IS an RV aristocracy and that also runs counter to my particular sensibilities. There is a growing judgmental tone in the community now that wasn't there just a few years ago. And it's simply not for me.

Anyway, geez, what a ramble, eh?

I'll be in the same place at Oshkosh, and I'll still have a cooler and a small grill (I think Stein is donating the big grill he bought for the event to EAA Chapter 25. I hope if we do this next year, we can borrow it from 25.), and some chairs and I hope my friends will still stop by as time allows to share some of their time.

As I said, I'd like to try it again next year. I've certainly got the organizational part of it down pat. But coming up with a mechanism to guarantee the thing financially (and a plan to rebate money to those RV-businesses who cover the shortfall) is beyond my ability. I'd need someone to step forward and take that on.

In the meantime, if you can stop by the tent any evening during Oshkosh this year, there won't be hundreds of people there, but a nightly gathering of a dozen or so folks sitting around? I like THAT. If y'all want to do that on Thursday like Bob suggests... it works for me.

The BBQ started in '03 with a small handful of folks from the old Yahoogroup stopping by... Darwin, Kevin and Sandy Faris, and about 10 others.... the campsite "just to hang out" and that's what we need to get back to.

Bob,

I would like to stop by your tent one evening during Oshkosh. Where are you camping.
 
BTW, EAA is really beefing up the nighttime entertainment at Oshkosh this year, I see. I'd hate to have tried to go up against Jeff Dunham on Wednesday night.

Should be plenty to do this year besides spend $.