[patterson]

Hello,

By way of introduction, I am an RV-4 builder in Northern California. My building partner and I have set about doing a new kit (#4446) with a slider. Started in December 2003....we're working on the canopy now.

In my opinion the RV-4 is WAY too hard to build in it's current configuration (a bunch of aluminum and some drawings that are often contradictory).
I too have inquired as to why Van's won't consider reverse engineering those incredibly confusing 25+ year old RV-4 plans to 'accomodate the market that would opt to purchase a QB-4 over the -8'? Answer is the -8 is a replacement for the -4 (and a better airplane overall for the mission) so there are few actual customers. In short, Van's doesn't feel there would be much real demand for a QB -4, and the cost to turn it into a QB is, as I understand it, prohibitive.

His plane, not mine, so even if I had ton's of $$$ to try turning out QB-4's.... not my plane to start with. The whole design just can't be re-done.

Anyway.....Howdy! Glad to be a part of the group! I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this subject.

Ron
N8ZD (reserved)
[email protected]

 

[alpinelakespilot2000]

Regarding incomplete plans, join the club!

While I love the -9 I'm building, I'm continually amazed that Van's has not done a better job about updating the instructions for that model, let alone a -4! Like my building class instructor (a multiple RV builder) warned me, learn to read blue prints really well, because the instructions may just confuse you. The plane is not particularly hard to build (particularly with the pre-punching), and I've done quite well up to this point, particularly because of all the help I get on this forum. There are so many great ideas on this forum about how to do things different (or at least in a different order) than Van's recommends that have made the building process much easier for me. I think Van's should hire a good technical writer who's built these planes, looks at some of these suggestions, and then incorporates them into the old plans on a more regular, systematic basis. Then I think his instructions could then be as good as the aircraft. Apparently the -10 plans, from everything I've read, are light years ahead of the others, so maybe Van's has turned a new leaf in this regard. Whether he'll ever go back and rework the -7, -8, -9 plans, let alone the -4, I highly doubt!

Good luck.

Steve

 

[N916K]

Please don't change the 4

Just one's guys rant, pay no attention....

I'm really amazed when I hear people complain about the Vans kits. When I finished my 9 I was a bit disappointed that there was not more building. It was basically put flap A in slot B. A buddy of mine is working on a couple of 10's. I really don't like the plans on it. They are so dumbed down. Van's has taken clever short cuts and worked them into the directions without explaining what you?re doing. You kind of blindly go down the path without any knowledge of where you?re heading. My buddy has built a 4 and a 7 so it's no big deal but for the first time builder it's a real leap of faith to get a kit that has only assembly drawings. I would much prefer good drawings over directions.

I look forward to building a jig and laying out rivets on my next plane. That way I can get a little closer to saying I built it instead of I shook the box and out came a plane. I might even consider a plans built RV if they still sold plans.

...okay rant over.

Cam

 

[RV10Man]

RV10 Plans

I'm building a 10 now. I really like the plans, they're easier to read & understand than a lot of the model airplane's plans & instruction that I've built over the years.
While the 10 plans may tend to be "dumbed" down a bit, I'd much rather be made to feel dumb than to end up wasting a lot of aluminum. I know this has happened on several occasions, my brother just finished a 9A & I have several friends, that are building RV's, & they've had to order new parts because the plans & instructions were not so clear. I haven't had to buy any extra parts yet & I'm working on the sb wings now.
Maybe Van's is leaving the plans alone for the rest of the kits because he makes money off screwed up parts & feels the 10 is costing enough already.

Marshall Alexander
RV10-wings

 

[gvgoff99]

RV-4 Plans update

I am just guessing but I think Van will not update the plans because of product liability issues. Can you see it..........."Mr. VanGrunsven we noticed that you changed the plans on the RV-? and Mr. Couldn't Rivet had an accident yaddi yaddi yaddi."

 

[John_RV4]

The RV4

Take a look at the price of used RVs. I decent RV4 is $50k. A decent RV8 is $100k. A decent RV10 will COST you $100k to BUILD !

One of Van's great accomplishments was that you could build a real airplane and still send your kids to college .
Today, the market has gone decidedly upscale. That's fine but I hope that they continue to recognize that there are a few people out there who find $100k a lot of money to spend on a hobby. The 4 is still relatively affordable and I hope we never lose that completely.......

John

 

[rvpilot]

WAY to hard to build?

I know the earlier designed kits aren't as easy to build as the newly designed ones available today, but to say they are way to hard to build, I don't think that's a fair statement. Compared to what was, and is, available from other folks, Van's has always furnished kits that are pretty complete, with instruction manuals that, while lacking a bit in some areas, have allowed thousands of folks to finish and fly a very performance oriented airplane. And a lot of them were completed using the same "bunch of aluminum and some drawings that are often contradictory" that have been mentioned. Had these ealier designed, less processed kits been that hard to build, I don't believe there would be over 4000 RV's flying today!
I'd like to see what someone who built an RV back in the late 70's, early 80's has to say on this subject, someone speak up!
Bill Waters

 

[penguin]

Kinda early RV-4 kit

I got my RV-4 kit in 1989 (for $8K) and was amazed at how good it was, compared to the other offerings on the market at the time. Even then there was a whole bunch of knowledge out there on what to do and not to do (kit number 2433). I figured at the time I could get it in the air for under $20K.

One of the reasons that we are all building and flying RVs now is that Van's have taken commercially sensible decisions over the years. There are many other builders who are now orphaned. Would updating the RV-4 be sensible from a commercial view point? Somehow I doubt it. IMHO the -4 is the best of the bunch. If you want one bad, learn all about them and buy one already built. Otherwise you know what to do ...