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Steve Sampson

Well Known Member
Is it considered wrong to tie wrap wires to the engine frame? Mostly I use adel clamps and occasionaly the sticky pads but where wires are just following the engine frame is it considered wrong to just tie wrap them to it? If so why?

It would save weight and cost.

Thanks
 
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I wouldn't tyrap the wires directly to the tubing. There is an opportunity for the insulation to abrade where it is tied to the tubing. One way around this is to tyrap the wires to the tubing but before tightening the rap install and second rap between the wires and the tubing pull it tight ,then tighten the first tyrap. I would not use the adhesive mounts. They will become unstuck with heat, time and any tension on the wiring.
 
Steve,

My favorite is to use Adel clamps as they are easy to use and change out, if you wind up adding more wires as you go.

Here is a good picture. You will notice that some wires are tie-wrapped and as Don pointed out, they can cut the wires. When using tie wraps, I would put one around the tube and another to tie the wire to the tie-wrap. Either that or I would create stand-offs, such as seen in this picture. That stand-off was more to keep things from rubbing than for support.
 
Another option is to wrap a thin sheet of rubber around a mount tube, tie wrap it into place by itself. Then, you can tie wrap wires or bundles over that. Here is an example that has held up for 950 hours:

 
Steve,
Opinions are divided on the use of cable ties on the engine mount. I have talked to 4 LAMEs (Australian for Light Aircraft Maintenance Engineer) and none of them has a problem with cable ties directly on the engine mount. I used them directly on the engine mount on my Vari-Eze with no problems after 450 hours. Adel clamps would most likely be better for heavy cables such as the starter cables. You can keep the wires away from the engine mount as described in post # 2. If the wire is crossing the mount rather than running parallel then slip a second cable tie between the mount and the first tie and run the wire in the second tie. If you are concerned that the tie may somehow carve up the mount/wire then just regularly inspect and replace with a clamp in the unlikely event a problem emerges.
Others may disagree!

Fin
9A Flying
 
3M Product

AlexPeterson said:
Another option is to wrap a thin sheet of rubber around a mount tube, tie wrap it into place by itself. Then, you can tie wrap wires or bundles over that. Here is an example that has held up for 950 hours:

Click to expand...
I use 3M 130C tape for this; works well. Looks just like yours. A DME (the guy who gives the test to A&P applicants) told me the tie can abrade the steel in the mount, so this approach is very desireable.
 
Several people have reported seeing damage on engine mounts caused by tie wraps. Some people will discount this, as they haven't seen it with their own eyes.

From a practical perspective, it seems that it is grit between the tie wraps and the engine mounts that provides the mechanism by which engine mounts are damaged by tie wraps. If you keep the engine mount clean, and inspect it regularly, it seems unlikely that a dangerous amount of damage would occur between inspections. The worst case that would likely occur is that you would have to buy a new engine mount and take the time to replace the old one. As long as you are prepared to potentially spend the money and time to replace an engine mount if damage does occur, there is no reason not to save a few dollars and a bit of time by dispensing with Adel clamps.
 
Kevin Horton said:
As long as you are prepared to potentially spend the money and time to replace an engine mount if damage does occur, there is no reason not to save a few dollars and a bit of time by dispensing with Adel clamps.
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Hmmm, Kevin I suspect you might be saying something here between the lines. Is this your attempt at irony. I can't remember seeing too many cable ties on the engine mount pix on your website.

Actually, replacing an engine mount on an RV can be very problematic. Vans manufactures the mounts on jigs but there is so much concentrated welding going on that when they cool and shrink they change shape....consequently no two are ever exactly the same. A friend of mine found this out recently when he replaced an RV mount and discovered that the holes in the fuselage support gussets were no longer in reasonable alignment with the mounting holes in the new engine mount. Fixing the problem was apparently a real PITA.
 
Mount protection...

Kevin Horton said:
Several people have reported seeing damage on engine mounts caused by tie wraps. Some people will discount this, as they haven't seen it with their own eyes.

From a practical perspective, it seems that it is grit between the tie wraps and the engine mounts that provides the mechanism by which engine mounts are damaged by tie wraps. If you keep the engine mount clean, and inspect it regularly, it seems unlikely that a dangerous amount of damage would occur between inspections. The worst case that would likely occur is that you would have to buy a new engine mount and take the time to replace the old one. As long as you are prepared to potentially spend the money and time to replace an engine mount if damage does occur, there is no reason not to save a few dollars and a bit of time by dispensing with Adel clamps.
Click to expand...

Kevin,

You seemed to have ignored the option discussed above about wrapping the steel of the mount under any ty-raps.....:)

This approach should prevent grit from wearing out the steel.

I personally prefer 3 to 4 wraps of good plastic tape - which is around 0.007 thick per layer.

gil A
 
absolutly not

Under no circumstance will I endorse tie-wraps or zip-ties on the engine mount... if they are any loose at all then they will cut throught the metal... I'm not kidding... Now.... if we have to for right now... we'll put tape on the mount and a really tight zip tie... but it comes off when the adel clamps come in. For goodness sakes... Please spend the extra 25 cents to get an adel clamp instead of the ziptie. Unless you want to pay shop rate for me to pull your engine and accessories and engine mount and put everything back after your engine mount is sent off to Kosala in Middle Georgia... That's if I catch it in time.... I've seen broken engine mounts before and it's not pretty or cheap.

Best
Brian
 
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