L

lacofdfireman

Member
I know this is a real newbie question but I really don't know.. Just wondering if Insurance is mandatory if you paid cash for the plane... I know with a car you have to at least have liability insurance but Full Coverage is not needed unless you have a loan out on the vehicle... So with planes is it the same? I keep reading about Insurance rates of $2-3k for low time pilots per year... Would it be just plain stupid to not insure your plane if you owned it out right? Just curious...
 
I am not aware that any insurance is mandatory. Comprehensive (airplane damage) almost certainly no. Whether you have it or not is your decision.

Personally I think not having liability is unwise.
 
Liability is down to $600 or lower per year. But you might have to have full coverage the first year. I'm not really sure about that. I did have full, the first, and now liability only. $612 per year.

L.Adamson --- Rv6A
 
It depends on where you want to fly your aircraft. If you want to fly it in Canada, you are required to have liability insurance, even if it is a US registered aircraft.

The reg is very convoluted, but it appears to require $100,000 of liability insurance if the maximum take-off weight is 2300 lb or less, assuming the aircraft is not operated commercially.
 
Often individual airports or hangar owners require liability insurance. Liability insurance by itself is much lower than "in motion" coverage.

You can also get "not in motion" coverage that protects the value of the aircraft for things like hail, other aircraft running into it, hangar rash, winds, etc.

In any event, assess your risk versus the cost to you if something happens.
 
The simple answer is that insurance is NOT mandatory if you are using public airports in the US. Now, if you are renting a hangar, your lease may require it, and there may be other exceptions too, but the FAA doesn't require insurance.
 
I know of no U.S. FEDERAL regulation that requires insurance. I do feel that liability insurance is necessary to PROTECT everything you have in case of an accident.

The airport that I am based requires that I have liability insurance. The Feds require that you have insurance if you fly in to or out of a Military Base. Your insurance company is required to send a form in to the government before you are given permission to fly to the military base.

$1,000,000 liability for my RV-6 cost me less than $350 per year. I pay more for less liability coverage than that for my car.
 
RV6_flyer said:
$1,000,000 liability for my RV-6 cost me less than $350 per year. I pay more for less liability coverage than that for my car.
Click to expand...

Is that per occupant? I'd love to be able to get $1M coverage, but my Nationair policy is $1M incident, but $100K per occupant which I bet for any serious injuries would be gone real fast.
 
In TN there is a thing called the Financial Responsibility Law...Not sure is specifically calls out that you must have liability insurance on an airplane but if you are ever involved in an incident where you are liable, they will burn you for not having any....You might have a similar law in your state.

Full coverage is up to you or any local rules like your hangar etc.
 
You?re more likely to be sued by having insurance. For those that actually have the liability insurance, how much do those 1 million dollar policies actually pay out per person for medical?

I'm somebody who lives in a rural area, likes to fly over desolate places, fly in the best of weather, and won't be flying much more than 40-70 hours a year when I do get my plane up and running. Not interested in doing any extreme aerobatics, but will stick to the safe stuff. I haven't made up my mind yet, but I doubt I'll get any kind of liability insurance either, and the plane will be stored at my place.
 
Normally the airport where you are based will require a $1 million liability binder. Liability only can be acquired for ~ $350.
I'm currently self-insured with this type of policy. I opted for it versus the full coverage for ~ $2000/year. I figured I would take a chance & felt that with minor airframe damage, I could fix it myself.
 
Varies by state

Insurance requirements (liability) vary by state and aircraft type. In virginia, a single engine requires 300K liability as well as a minimum medical for passengers (something like 50k). This is below typical coverages, usually 1 million, which are obtainable in the $500 to $600 dollar range for a low time pilot. This is what I paid with <100 hrs PIC time (total) to insure my 6A. Required 5 hrs dual instruction in type.

Hull insurance is not legally a requirement as it benefits only yourself. If you have a lien there may be a contractual requirement.
 
Ok, now that I understand that Full coverage insurance is not required but Liability seems like a very good idea, how many have opted not to have Full Coverage or Hull insurance... Then again maybe this is to personal a question to ask. If so I apologize...
 
Decisions

lacofdfireman said:
Ok, now that I understand that Full coverage insurance is not required but Liability seems like a very good idea, how many have opted not to have Full Coverage or Hull insurance... Then again maybe this is to personal a question to ask. If so I apologize...
Click to expand...

This is a personal decision based on an individual's tolerance for risk. Financial risk, that is. I carry hull insurance on my '8' for a couple of reasons. Many people only think along the lines of an "in motion" incident like a ground loop, botched landing, or off-airport excursion. Having "not in motion" coverage, as I do, would help after the drunk in the pickup truck wipes out your airplane on the ground or the hangar burns to the ground. Again, it is a personal call, you have to balance risk and cost.

?You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk??
Clint Eastwood

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAA FAAST Team Member
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
Liability is a must. If someone steals your plane and flies it into a building, you can count on be sued. If you have a gazillion dollars you can choose to self-insure, depending on your state laws. That may require putting money into a Trust.

Hull coverage cannot be required unless you borrow money to buy the plane - then the lender may require it. Same for insurance for ground damage (hail, theft, someone else drives into your plane). You can always self-insure for those possibilities if you did not borrow money.
 
breister said:
Liability is a must. If someone steals your plane and flies it into a building, you can count on be sued.
Click to expand...

How many has had that happen to them though? I would like to hear from those that have had to use their liability insurance vs those that have never used it. I?m especially curious as to what kind of medical expenses a 1 million dollar policy actually covers too.

I?ve never read from any aircraft insurance policies, but on my business when I used to carry liability insurance for it; that supposed one million dollar policy I had, only covered $5,000 medical per person. And the more I read it, the more I found out what it didn?t cover. I figured the odds must have been a zillion to one for anyone to have actually been able to collect for something totaling one million the way the policy was written.

It?s been some years since I owned a plane in TX. I don?t recall it being a requirement back in the mid-nineties. I didn?t have liability insurance on it then, nor did my local airport (F14) require it; at least they never one time asked me about it. Does anybody know if it is a requirement now in TX?
 
DanLandry said:
Normally the airport where you are based will require a $1 million liability binder. Liability only can be acquired for ~ $350.
I'm currently self-insured with this type of policy. I opted for it versus the full coverage for ~ $2000/year. I figured I would take a chance & felt that with minor airframe damage, I could fix it myself.
Click to expand...

Dan,

AVEMCO increased the premium to over $2000 (65 hull 1 mil liab) because as the agent said, you are in a different pool being over 70. After applying discount it came in at about $1975.

I called Jenny at NationAir and she found a policy with Chartis with better coverage ($100 deduct vrs $1000) for $1318. I did not want to leave AVEMCO after being with them since the early 80's, but money is money and the feeling of being ripped off was irritating.

Next year Chartis may or may not renew, who knows? I nearly went your route this year with liability only (it is unofficially mandatory, you can not go to OSH without it) but the Chartis premium is most reasonable so it was somewhat of a no brainer. The liability part is $217 but it covers only 3 grand for medical.
 
Last edited:
I guess any way you look at it Insurace is a gamble... For me I have paid Car insurance (Full Coverage) on all my vehicles for the past 20 years and to this day I have still never made a claim.. It's one of those double edged swords... I wish I didn't have it but then again if I didn't have it and I needed it I will wish I would have had it.. It still makes me mad that after all these years of no claims I can get a ticked and my insurance jumps way up for years... Me personally when I build I will pay cash and carry liabilty only... I figure if I can afford to build it with cash I should be able to afford to fix it also... If I never had full coverage car insurance for the past 20 years I would probably already have enough to pay cash for an RV.. But maybe I am not looking at the big picture as far as insurance goes...
 
Cheap life insurance?

I have always considered hull insurance cheap life insurance. In an emergency I can avoid the temptation to try to save the plane and focus on saving myself.

When I was in Grand Teton NP my Cherokee was tied down on the ramp at Driggs, ID 40 miles away and damaged by hail. I'd still be flying a golf ball instead of the raplacement RV-6A if I hadn't had hull insurance.

LarryT
 
Insurence Questions

$1,000,000 liability for my RV-6 cost me less than $350 per year. I pay more for less liability coverage than that for my car.[/QUOTE]

I am in the process of trying to obtain insurance on my RV-9 as we speak.
Could you please pass on the name of your insurer, as the price you have stated looks very good! I currently have over 3K hours and proximately 50 hours in this RV. Do you happen to know where the price breaks occur in the premiums based on number of hours? Thank you in advance for any and all help in this area. Regards, Allan:confused:
 
Insurance, again...

PerfTech said:
I am in the process of trying to obtain insurance on my RV-9 as we speak.
Could you please pass on the name of your insurer, as the price you have stated looks very good! I currently have over 3K hours and proximately 50 hours in this RV. Do you happen to know where the price breaks occur in the premiums based on number of hours? Thank you in advance for any and all help in this area. Regards, Allan:confused:
Click to expand...

Allan,
Here is a quote from a recent thread on insurance. Jeff does a good job of taking the mystery out of the way the insurance business works.

ALL insurance for RV's is written through one of seven insurance companies.
Chartis- new name for AIG
Aerospace
Global Aerospace
Starr Aviation
Britt Paulk Aviation Underwriters
US Specialty
AVEMCO

Hundreds of BROKERS represent all of these companies. These brokers include Falcon, Nationair, Airpower, CS&A, Travers, AJM, Hardy, Sky Smith, Leading Edge, AOPA etc. etc. etc. ALL of these brokers go to all of these markets for quotes. Your quote is not from Nationair, or from Falcon - it is from one of these insurers. It serves NO purpose to "call my guy at xxx-xxx-xxxx" as is so commonly recommended here.

Pick a good broker - one that you can reach on the phone when you call and one that explains things to you when you talk. Let that ONE broker shop the market for you and report each insurer's response to you. Then pick the insurer that has the best package for your PARTICULAR situation and unique variables.

AVEMCO is the exception to the above - they are a DIRECT writer (agent and insurer are one in the same. They advertize that this saves you money, but in most cases it is 10-20% more expensive than the broker-accessed options.

AOPA is a broker, like all the rest. However, they are a call center type outfit. Often I've seen that they market your renewal only with one company (usually AIG / Chartis) and don't give you good options with the rest of the market.
__________________
Jeff Rhodes - Taylorsville, GA




John Clark ATP, CFI
FAA FAAST Team Member
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
Very informative!!!!!!

Thank you for the quick reply and all the information. You have saved me a considerable amount of hassel and frustration I am sure. I will put this info to work tomorrow and see where it goes. Thanks again, Allan:)
 
The risk of total loss

Hull insurance is one of those things that have the "do you feel lucky" feeling :cool:.

I have always been one of those people that insure everything as I could not stand to lose a large investment like a plane. The owner of the first plane I bought did not have insurance and as the builder his attitude was that he could repair any damage.

Four months ago I had an engine failure in that plane and during the forced landing into a field got caught with wind shear behind a row of trees and lost control at around 20 feet when the airspeed dropped from 70 knots to 50 knots in about three seconds. The aircraft was severely damaged when it rolled over and the wing caught the ground and then impacted the ground heavily :mad:. Apart from a fracture of the L2 vertebrae I walked out of it.

The aircraft was written off by the insurance company and I was paid out in full within three weeks. Since then I have bought a flying RV6A and the payout fully covered the purchase :D. Without insurance I would not have been able to buy again.

Kym
RV6A
Australia
 
You must log in or register to reply here.