[LettersFromFlyoverCountry]

I'm digging Stein's article in this month's Kitplanes on audio panels and intercoms.

I want to make sure I have it right. The issue in planning a panel is intercom OR audio panel, right?

As I understand it, the functions of, say, the low-end PS Engineering intercom for homebuilts (I can't remember the model name) are INCLUDED in the more robust audio panels. Yes?

If this is indeed the case, there any conceivable scenario where one would install a separate intercom AND an audio panel?

Sorry for the dumb question but... well... you know.

 

[n5lp]

is there any conceivable scenario where one would install a separate intercom AND an audio panel?...

Bob, It was common to have a separate intercom and audio panel in the earlier days of intercoms. Usually the audio panel was already there and an intercom was added. Today, installing from scratch, it would be a complication that I can't think of a good reason for.

Even my, almost free, RST audio panel/intercom works well.

 

[Bob Axsom]

My Terra Audio Panel has it too

My Terra audio panel with built in intercom (and marker beacon receiver) works well. There is no way I would buy a stand alone intercom.

Bob Axsom

 

[Tram]

This post kinda makes me wonder if we should unload our PM1000II and pick up a better audio panel..

We bought our RV used and the intercom in it is not what we would have put in ourselves..

 

[gmcjetpilot]

Why have an audio panel

If you are going to get an audio panel (one with a good VOX intercom) than yes, why get a stand alone intercom. But why an audio select panel at all. How many coms do you have? The main function of an audio panel is to select which transmitter you want to talk and listen to. The other buttons to listen to VOR, ADF, DME and MB are great, but do you have any of these items or need them? Are you going to have a speaker?


A typical VFR set-up, ONE Com and a GPS, does not need an audio panel. Even IFR many guys have only One Com, one that allows monitoring on two frequencies like the new ICOM or Garmin. Also with all the memories and freq data transfer from your GPS, one radio is all you need. You can only talk on one radio at a time. If you are going VFR or IFR w/ one transmitter, I don't see a big need for an audio panel. Not a put down, they are nice but we don't use speakers either.

The down side of a new Garmin or PS Engineering audio panel, they cost $1000 to $2600! Ouch. That is a lot of money to handle one Com,

One issue I see builder's having, even with one Com, is how to handle a warning tones. Com radios like the ICOM have several aux audio inputs for warning tones or what ever you want, so it's not a problem. The Garmin products are stingy with audio aux inputs, making it harder to deal with other inputs without an audio panel. Say you have a Garmin Com with no aux inputs, how do you handle 2 warning tones? You can make a simple 3 into 1 mixer, hidden under the panel with fixed settings. One channel for the Com audio and the other two channels for warning tones. This mixed audio feeds into the main audio input of the intercom. You don't need an audio panel. For music Intercoms usually have an exta aux input for music or whatever you want.

If going to upgrade to IFR later with a VOR and a 2nd Com, than an audio panel is a good idea. But the new audio panels from Garmin or PS Engineering start at $1000 or more. A good intercom is $200-$400.

 

[Tram]

Good post, George..

We don't fly the 6 IFR anyway so a simple intercom will work fine for us..

 

[vlittle]

If you are going to get an audio panel (one with a good VOX intercom) than yes, why get a stand alone intercom. But why an audio select panel at all. How many coms do you have? The main function of an audio panel is to select which transmitter you want to talk and listen to. The other buttons to listen to VOR, ADF, DME and MB are great, but do you have any of these items or need them? Are you going to have a speaker?


A typical VFR set-up, ONE Com and a GPS, does not need an audio panel. Even IFR many guys have only One Com, one that allows monitoring on two frequencies like the new ICOM or Garmin. Also with all the memories and freq data transfer from your GPS, one radio is all you need. You can only talk on one radio at a time. If you are going VFR or IFR w/ one transmitter, I don't see a big need for an audio panel. Not a put down, they are nice but we don't use speakers either.

The down side of a new Garmin or PS Engineering audio panel, they cost $1000 to $2600! Ouch. That is a lot of money to handle one Com,

One issue I see builder's having, even with one Com, is how to handle a warning tones. Com radios like the ICOM have several aux audio inputs for warning tones or what ever you want, so it's not a problem. The Garmin products are stingy with audio aux inputs, making it harder to deal with other inputs without an audio panel. Say you have a Garmin Com with no aux inputs, how do you handle 2 warning tones? You can make a simple 3 into 1 mixer, hidden under the panel with fixed settings. One channel for the Com audio and the other two channels for warning tones. This mixed audio feeds into the main audio input of the intercom. You don't need an audio panel. For music Intercoms usually have an exta aux input for music or whatever you want.

If going to upgrade to IFR later with a VOR and a 2nd Com, than an audio panel is a good idea. But the new audio panels from Garmin or PS Engineering start at $1000 or more. A good intercom is $200-$400.

A simple Sigtronics intercom is what I used on my 9A. To solve the problem of mixing other audio sources and warning tones, I developed the AMX-1A audio mixer, which is sold by www.aircraftextras.com. Look for the Vx Aviation logo.

Simple and effective, and the total cost is much lower than an audio panel.

V

 

[SteinAir]

Thanks Bob - Nice to know I at least have one reader out there! Although I wish I had a better way with words as you "perfessionals" do!

Anyway, simple answer is:

More than one radio (or a Nav AND a Comm such as an SL-30) - get an audio panel.

One Comm radio - get an intercom.

PSE does make the PMA-4000 whic is less than $800 (using ACS price). It has functions for 2 Navs, 2 Comms and has an intercom. Not a full blown audio panel, but we do end up installing quite a number of them in less complex panels. One thing to keep in mind is that lots of modern panels have lots of audio "thingy's" in them. EFIS's, Traffic, XM radio, Engine Monitors, etc.. Simple intercoms make this difficult as they have limited inputs whereas the higher end audio panels usually have many more. Or, PSE makes a REALLY NICE nifty little audio summing amplifier for combining multiple audio streams into one output called the PA-50. We've also started using those and man they are slick.

Hope that helps!

Cheers,
Stein.

 

[uk_figs]

PM-50

Did not see the PM-50 on the PSE website, what exactly does it do?
Multiple audio outs are one of the issues I was wrestling with as there are audio alerts from the D-100, D-120, SL-30 and of course the audio and music from the 496. With the new Dynon HS34 I can sum the Dynons into one audio out and the PM3000 intercom I have can handle two mono inputs and one external stereo input (for the 496 audio out).
In failsafe only one of the mono inputs is active so you have to choose which connection you want in this mode.
Now I only have to figure out how to switch the wifes IPOD into the mix and I did find a small mixer used for motorcycles that accepts multiple stereo inputs. Is the PM-50 something that will help?

 

[Walt]

I use a 4PDT for my "Audio Panel"....

I have dual coms, AOA, 496 music/warnings and don't see any reason for an expensive "audio" panel that has half a dozen useless inputs, I use the PM3000 stereo intercom which works great. There is also a new PM3000A that has 2 audio inputs now which could easily handle 2 more inputs. I have the older model and just tied the audio out from the AOA onto the the headphone input (PM3000 out) and all works fine. Comm 1/2 is selected with a nice gold contact 4PDT toggle (audio, mic, 496 data, Ptt).

 

[gmcjetpilot]

It might lose sales

Did not see the PM-50 on the PSE website, what exactly does it do?

Probably because it eliminates the need for customers to buy an expensive audio panel for homebuilts with one Com. If you want, email me off list (see public profile). There are already several threads on the subject in archives. Some folks just use a resistor and capacitor to "mix" two or more audio signals. However a little audio amp is better and allows more control & balance. You can make a little mixing board to meet your needs, probably equiv or even more deluxe than the PM-50. If the PM-50 is reasonably priced, buy it and forget the audio panel. Here's a schematic of a stereo mixer posted to the web by Aeroelectric you can make. LINK You may not want to make that but look, its mostly just some resistors, capacitors. The power supply and op amps are fancy but no big deal. This is stereo so its double or two mono mixers really. There's easier solutions adapting existing electronic hobby kits (stereo or mono if you like) with the board, parts for less than $20, which you solder up in 30 minutes. They run on 12 volts and milliamps and are small and compact. Mount it in a hobby box, set it (volume bal) and forget it behind the panel. If you have a Sigtronics intercom, there's Mr. Vern Little's add on (previous post).

Thanks Bob - Nice to know I at least have one reader out there! Although I wish I had a better way with words as you "perfessionals" do!

More than one radio (or a Nav AND a Comm such as an SL-30) - get an audio panel.

One Comm radio - get an intercom. Stein.

Although Stein is really the professional and I'm not, I would disagree that one Com + one NAV (assume VOR/LOC) recommends the use of an audio panel. The only thing you have to listen to is ID. Well thats not totally true there is TWEBS and sometimes FSS/Flight Watch transmit voice over VORs. Still even without an audio panel you can MIX in NAV audio with out a audio panel. The is nothing wrong with them; they're the deluxe solution, but they take panel space and cost some cash. Audio mixing is easy. You can make a simple mixing board to handle all those extra auxiliary audio warnings and occasional NAV ID's. If you don't want to hear the ID you turn the volume down. You can get fancy with an audio mixer and throw little tiny switch or two on the panel to override/cancel warning or NAV audio, basically a simple audio panel. I say if you have TWO COM's yes, get and audio panel or the simple PMA-4000 with the simple two radio/two nav selector + intercom. The down side is I don't think the PMA4000 is stereo.

 

[SteinAir]

Walt's way of doing it is certainly possible and is still done sometimes - especially with a relatively simple setup. But, if you have 2 comms and one nav (which we see frequently in IFR setups) or dual Nav/Comms, XM/AOA/EFIS/EIS/TIS-TCAS/Sorcerer/CO-Det/GNS430-530/, etc.. it's just not a realistic option. Surprisingly many of you will end up with panels every bit as complex as listed above. Many of you will not, and for those people and Intercom works fine - it's what I've got in my old beater!

Walt picked a good intercom, and it's one of the few with extra unswitched inputs. Don't assume the lower priced intercoms will/would suffice with Walt's setup though - because most of them wouldn't.

Also, just an FYI and response to Walts comment abou the extra music input. The 2nd Music input is almost entirely worthless for a 2 seat airplane. It's for PASSENGERS only (NOT crew) as is the case with all PSE/Garmin equipment with multiple entertainment/audio inputs, so trying to use that for crew audio inputs would require yet more switching and/or jumpering.

Anyway, back to my original point. If you have multiple radios just get an Audio Panel. It's less kludgy, less wiring and all those "worthless" audio inputs are actually quite handy. It's nice to be able to turn off things you don't always want to hear. All those buttons on the Audio Panel let you do just that. Just because it might be currently labled "ADF" or something, doesn't mean you have to use it for that.

If your panel is simple and Intercom will suffice (that's what I fly behind), but if you have multiple radios just buck up and buy and audio panel. The extra $500-$600 bucks won't kill you on your $80K project.

Also, regarding the PA-50, it's under their accessories section. We stock them and use them on panels where we don't have enough inputs to match all the Audio goodies in the panel. They are a nifty little box that lets you level all the audio streams from multiple sources - price is about $200.

Regarding GMC's comments...he's pretty much right on. Except, some Radios don't/won't allow you to just "turn down" the NAV side and you might always here that faint VOR ident or something. Better to run it through a switch as he stated if that's what you're going to do. I only say use an Audio panel with a Nav/Comm, because it's fairly likely that if you have Nav/Comm that you're also going to have a whole host of other audio inputs which is where the intercoms are just not strong. FYI, by the time you buy a good intercom ($450 +/-, and add the audio mixer to it for $200 +/-) you aren't far away from just getting the lower end PM-6000 audio panel for another $200 or so.

Just my 2 cents as usual!

Cheers,
Stein

PS - Walt...you sure you don't want to spend the winter in MN wiring up panels?!?!

 

[Walt]

PS - Walt...you sure you don't want to spend the winter in MN wiring up panels?!?!

Have you lost your mind! It's 70 degrees today and sunny, think I might go lay out by the pool for a while which sure beats shoveling snow

As soon as you are ready to open up "Stein DFW" give me a holler, I'll be all over it!