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riosouza

I'm New Here
Hi guys,
I'm a student pilot and I just did solo on an Archer ll which is a very nice trainer. I want to buy a plane instead spend $$ with rentals.
Few days ago I got and offer from a friend to buy 1/2 of his RV6 which I flew with my instructor and I just fell in love for it....geee what a sweet and wild aircraft.
I have a major problem now, being a pilot student I cannot get insurance from AVEMCO which I have my currently non-owned premium insurance with.
I want to buy this airplane so bad and besides I have the advantage of having my instructor with a lot of TD hours with his Pitts.
Is there an insurance company that would insure me while I have my instructor flying with me?
After I get my private license would I be able to use a non-owned aircraft insurance, never mentioning I purchased the RV and if anything happens tell them I borrowed it?
The reason is: I called AVEMCO to ask them how much would cost me to ensure the RV after I get my PPL and a guy told me $5,000.00!!!
I just don't want to spend that much money right now until I build up enough hours on it to lower insurance costs as an owner.:(
I will really appreciate if someone shares similar experience about this and/or what is the best direction to take.:)

Best regards,
Wilson S.
 
You need to call an independent agent and ask them. I use NationAir and they seem to be good. They will check all the available options and present the best to you.

For what it's worth, Avemco was my highest quote. Also, don't ask more than one agent to price shop because the underwriter at each insurer will probably just quote the same thing to each agent.
 
I've got almost a thousand hours, about 700 of that in the PA28.

Avemco wanted $1100/yr to insure my plain old Cherokee 140 :eek:

An independent broker sells me the same coverage for under $600/yr.

Does that tell you anything about Avemco?

I got added onto my friend's RV-8 insurance for a very modest add-on fee, but it took about 50 hours total taildragger time and 25 hours in RV tailwheel time to be able to do that affordably. Getting RV tailwheel insurance coverage as a student pilot is probably going to be difficult and breathtakingly expensive no matter what. Might be much more affordable to finish getting your PPASEL in a spamcan and then adding on the tailwheel + RV transition time later. Some folks simply buy their RV and then fly uninsured until they've logged enough time to qualify for more reasonable insurance, but doing that certainly carries the obvious risks, and if the RV is financed then doing that is a no-go altogether.
 
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I have had good luck with Sky Smith in Iowa on my builders policy and Falcon on my Piper. Hope that helps.
 
A friend of mine was a student pilot with his RV-4..

...and found insurance for himself and me as his CFI with the Forest Agency, up north: 800 536 2011

Best,
 
riosouza said:
After I get my private license would I be able to use a non-owned aircraft insurance, never mentioning I purchased the RV and if anything happens tell them I borrowed it?
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DO NOT do this.
1) During the discovery process before the insurer pays a $50,000 (?) claim they WILL determine who owns the airplane. Telling them you borrowed it when you actually own half is fraud - punishable by a denied claim at best and jail at worst.

2) If you own it, then Non-Owned aircraft insurance would not apply. It probably doesn't apply to experimental aircraft anyway - read your policy.

3) If you DID borrow it and chose to rely on your non-owned coverage rather than get approved and added to the owner's insurance policy, what happens in a loss when you are not negligent? Non-owned is a LIABILITY policy protecting YOU. If the engine fails and you land in a field and the airplane is damaged, through no fault of your own, the airplane's owner is in big trouble. He can't sue you to recover because you're not at fault. And he can't recover from his own insurer because he had a pilot flying that was not approved by his policy.

Do it right. It doesn't pay to try to game the system. Student pilots in hot rod homebuilts are a bigger risk. That's why they charge more.
It only takes 40 hours to get your PPL in that PA-28, which is an excellent trainer. In 6 months you can have that knocked out and then buy in to the airplane that you want.
 
Bill Powell

Call Bill Powell at Powell Southwest Agency in Addison, Texas (I notice you are in Texas), lay it out for him, and let him see if he can find you coverage.

BTW JDRhodes is right. Don't try to game the system. It's a good way to void any coverage you get.
 
riosouza said:
After I get my private license would I be able to use a non-owned aircraft insurance, never mentioning I purchased the RV and if anything happens tell them I borrowed it?
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Dang. Please whack yourself upside the head for even asking that.
 
Also please whack yourself for being a student and already getting a chance to fly an RV.


:D

I need to trade in my friends for some with nicer airplanes :eek:
 
JDRhodes said:
....telling them you borrowed it when you actually own half is fraud - punishable by a denied claim at best and jail at worst....
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Eventually they wont be able to find out unless I tell them because the only doc available would be a receipt for the purchase of the share, with my partner agreement.

However I I have called Nationair and I was told the student pilot insurance is only available for RV6A!
Now I will check with the RV owner's insurance and see Iif I can be added as a pilot, they might asked for 20-25hrs TW + endorsement...let see.
I appreciate all the support from y'all, and I will keep reading this thread for any other useful information anyone else can provide.

Cheers!
 
riosouza said:
Eventually they wont be able to find out unless I tell them because the only doc available would be a receipt for the purchase of the share, with my partner agreement.



Cheers!
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Wrong, it may be the retired cop in me talking here, but if you were ever involved in any serious event, a good insurance investigator will probably find your very public statements right here, and you could be worse off for the "pre-meditated" action. Play it straight, that way later down the road you won't have to worry about what lies you told earlier. Just my two cents. Glenn
 
I see...
Doe anyone know the average cost for a premium insurance for a RV6 not for a student but a pilot with 100 hrs on TW?

Thanks again guys!
 
Riosouza,

A "premium" insurance policy (e.g. no deductible, full hull coverage, with million "smooth" liability if you can still even find that for an experimental) for a typical nicely equipped used RV-6, say of around $60-70k market value, for a moderately experienced taildragger pilot (you stated 100 hours TW time, he'd probably also need 250 total PIC time)... If I had to pull a number out of thin air, I'd guess such a policy would start at least around $2800/yr or higher nowadays. With much lower limits of liability and a fair deductible on the hull (couldn't really then be called "premium" insurance) like what us mere mortals can afford on such an aircraft, insurance costs typically start around $1700-1800/yr for coverage that is acceptable to a bank or finance company loan on a used tailwheel RV. You'll note that this is at least double to triple what insurance on typical 40 yr old Cessna or Piper spamcan costs annually. Higher insurance is just simply part of the world of flying these high performance experimental airplanes.

...and I don't really mean to chide you any further on your previous suggestions regarding gaming the system or whatever, but you'll find the whole RV community places very high value on personal integrity here, and talk like that kinda raises eyebrows a wee bit, if you know what I mean.

We can all see you're a newcomer to the forums and have great enthusiasm for learning to fly and are extra excited after having gotten to fly an RV. We all feel exactly the same way about flying, and especially flying the RVs too.

Welcome to the forums, and please keep in mind that not only does the FAA and the insurance companies, etc, watch everything we do under a microscope, the aviation community polices itself too. We're all our brothers' keepers here. We have to, lest this wonderful freedom of flight be taken away from us.
 
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Thanks Neal for the warmth of your welcome!
Yes I'm completely newbie to the aviation world, which has by far more rules and rulers than I ever dreamed about... :(
I was just upset with avemco and I shared my upset thoughts...but I promise, I wont curse anymore. :)
All what I need is to find an insurance that will cover a property damage and the airplane, because a total loss would cost me $80K.
Insurance is a big $$ game, and the more information I collect about them and their rules, the less I will loose playing their game.
I wish I could wait until I get my license, but I don't want to miss this hard to find deal, of buying 1/2 of the RV hangared only 18 minutes from my house and the current owner barely fly it, so no tight flight schedule!
Any information about this subject will be very welcome!
 
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riosouza said:
I wish I could wait until I get my license, but this is the only RV6 in my area and I don't want to miss this deal of buying 50% of the RV only 18 minutes from my house and the current owner barely fly it, so no tight flight schedule!
Any information about this subject will be very welcome!
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I applaud your enthusiasm for wanting to fly and hope you are able to fulfill your dream!

Please keep in mind that buying an aircraft is a minefield unlike any other. The fact you are considering 1/2 ownership does not remove you from the potential heartache and financial stress that being strapped to a money pit can bring. You also need to carefully research partnership agreements and make sure you have a solid legal arrangement. I've been a part of two partnerships that worked very nicely, but some partnerships turn out to be horror shows.

Please consider this bit of advise from someone who has been around the RV community for over a dozen years and aircraft ownership for nearly twice that long:

Have somebody RV-qualified (not the seller!) do a VERY careful inspection of the RV you are considering before you even think about reaching for your wallet!

Best wishes for an enjoyable pursuit of your license.
 
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and no matter what you think now, you can almost always rent cheaper.

You may still want to own - most everybody here does. But it ain't for the money.
 
Hi Sam, thanks for the heads up...Yes, that's exactly what my instructor told me...in fact the airplane is well kept and maintained.

I kind figured the costs of owning an airplane, which is not the problem.......

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Thanks for the rental idea, and I know if I don't fly at least 100 hrs/yr rentals would be cheaper.....But I wish I could rent a RV... :(
That would be nice but again the issue is the abusive high cost of insurance.

I don't mind spending $5k-$10k every year with expenses for the plane, but I wont give $5K with a red ribbon to a blood sucker insurer.

I'm buying my share in cash, I don't have to get certain insurance type normally required by the banks.

Regards,
 
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riosouza said:
... the abusive high cost of insurance.

I don't mind spending $5k-$10k every year with expenses for the plane, but I wont give $5K with a red ribbon to a blood sucker insurer.
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They're only blood suckers up to the point that you hand them a $200,000 claim. Then they bleed - quite a lot.

Truth is - aviation insurers eek out about a 5% underwriting profit on a good year. And the last three haven't really been good.

Like you say - nobody says you have to buy it. If you don't feel there's value there then put the money in the bank - your widow can pay off the widow of the passenger you kill;)
 
JDRhodes said:
your widow can pay off the widow of the passenger you kill;)
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Speaking of this. Does anyone know of insurance for RVs which will cover more than $100,000/individual? I haven't heard of it. If my passenger dies $100K will be gone real fast...
 
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