[N941WR]

I have a good friend who wants to get his PPL and two CFI friends with over 500 hours in RV's. I thought it would be a no brainer putting my buddy on my insurance.

WRONG!

Here is what my insurance broker had to say on the subject:

Unfortunately, we do not have any markets that will quote a Student pilot in an experimental aircraft.

Once he is a licensed pilot we can certainly investigate at that time.

Best regards,

Have any of you run into this? If so, how did you get around it?

 

[pierre smith]

Bill, my stepson is working his way up to an A&P and wants to learn to fly. My wife loves the -10 and says that I should just use it...and be self-insured, for the same reason. My insurance covers me.

I'd obviously have to be very careful and ensure that he's gonna bring the airplane back in one piece. Still scratching my head over this because if someone else's property is damaged, I'm sunk.

Best,

 

[Clarkie]

Bill, my stepson is working his way up to an A&P and wants to learn to fly. My wife loves the -10 and says that I should just use it...and be self-insured, for the same reason. My insurance covers me.

I'd obviously have to be very careful and ensure that he's gonna bring the airplane back in one piece. Still scratching my head over this because if someone else's property is damaged, I'm sunk.

Best,

Not a good idea, Pierre. Although James is a guy that has his head on straight and I'm sure he'll do fine, accidents happen and you'll be out a ton of $$$. Don't do it.

 

[N941WR]

If he was my son, I would probably self insure but think of this; if the engine dies and he puts it down safely in some farmer's bean field, you could find yourself buying thousands of dollars worth of beans.And that is if he does everything right.

I wonder if he would be covered if he got a renters policy?

 

[rotary57]

I got insurance as a student pilot in my 8. Aviators Insurance was the broker, US Specialty Insurance Company was the provider.

 

[rotary57]

If he was my son, I would probably self insure but think of this; if the engine dies and he puts it down safely in some farmer's bean field, you could find yourself buying thousands of dollars worth of beans.And that is if he does everything right.

I wonder if he would be covered if he got a renters policy?

Renting an aircraft is a commercial operation, no experimentals allowed.

 

[N941WR]

Renting an aircraft is a commercial operation, no experimentals allowed.

I never said I was going to rent it to him, only that he should look into renters insurance. That is what you should have if you rent or borrower someone else's plane. (My policy covers me in someone else's plane for which I'm qualified to fly, up to the limits of my policy.)

PS. Some commercial operations are allowed with E-AB's.

 

[apkp777]

I gave my son all the required dual but had to send him to a flight school to solo. You could do the same?

 

[N941WR]

I gave my son all the required dual but had to send him to a flight school to solo. You could do the same?

That may work Tony. Thanks!

 

[rotary57]

I never said I was going to rent it to him, only that he should look into renters insurance. That is what you should have if you rent or borrower someone else's plane. (My policy covers me in someone else's plane for which I'm qualified to fly, up to the limits of my policy.)

PS. Some commercial operations are allowed with E-AB's.

You did not say that, I read too much between the lines. I would think though, that the same insurers who would have qualms about student pilots in your own experimental aircraft would have the same qualms about student pilots in someone else's experimental aircraft. Certainly worth asking about.

 

[BobTurner]

PS. Some commercial operations are allowed with E-AB's.

What would they be?
Other than transition training under a LODA, which is basically a waiver of the rules.

 

[BobTurner]

I'd obviously have to be very careful and ensure that he's gonna bring the airplane back in one piece.
Best,

One of the toughest things to instill in pilots is that sometimes the right choice is to sacrificed the airplane, to save his life. Even harder if he knows that there's no insurance.

 

[N941WR]

What would they be?
Other than transition training under a LODA, which is basically a waiver of the rules.

Another example would be how Team Aerodynamics uses their planes.

 

[jestes]

I have a good friend who wants to get his PPL and two CFI friends with over 500 hours in RV's. I thought it would be a no brainer putting my buddy on my insurance.

WRONG!

Here is what my insurance broker had to say on the subject:


Have any of you run into this? If so, how did you get around it?

There are a couple of insurance companies that will quote a Student in an RV. Feel free to contact me.

 

[catmandu]

There are a couple of insurance companies that will quote a Student in an RV. Feel free to contact me.

+1 for Nationair, they found me a policy at only a very small additional premium that included instruction for my son.

 

[alpinelakespilot2000]

A bit off topic, but I would be really hesitant about a student learning in an RV for at least the first 20-30 hours or so. I made a lot of REALLY interesting landings in the 150! Plus, I can get by with some pretty sloppy rudder use in the RV that I never could in the planes I trained in.

Perhaps starting in a trainer and then transitioning to the RV sometime before earning the license might be better, both for the plane and for insurance options.

 

[jrs14855]

Commercial Activity

Airshows or any type of demonstration flying where the operator is compensated. Very routine in EAB as well as Experimental Exhibition.
Technically air racing is also a commercial operation. Movie work would be another example.
The FAA has made some really bizarre rulings over the years as to what constitutes a commercial operation. If you take one or more passengers with you on a flight and share expenses, it is accepted that this is not a commercial operation.

 

[N941WR]

There are a couple of insurance companies that will quote a Student in an RV. Feel free to contact me.

Jenny,

Thank you for taking the time to talk to me this afternoon, regarding this subject!

 

[TrutrakTech]

A bit off topic, but I would be really hesitant about a student learning in an RV for at least the first 20-30 hours or so. I made a lot of REALLY interesting landings in the 150! Plus, I can get by with some pretty sloppy rudder use in the RV that I never could in the planes I trained in.

Perhaps starting in a trainer and then transitioning to the RV sometime before earning the license might be better, both for the plane and for insurance options.

I will agree with this statement. As I'm still a student pilot (33 hours in the book), I think a few hours in a non-RV would be beneficial, especially on the front side of training. I've been around RV's for the last 9 years, as long as I've worked for Trutrak. So I'm quite familiar with them and actually have a good bit of "unlogged" stick and rudder time. That said, my official lessons started in a C172. And I learned the value of foot work there. If I had started training in the RV with my instructor, I could certainly see myself lacking in pedal skills. I started flying the RV-12 for training at about 11 hours, after my first solo in the C172. As easy as the RV-12 is to fly, it was even easier after spending some time in the Cessna.

I'll be moving to the RV-10 tomorrow and getting my high performance endorsement. So, there are companies that will insure student pilots in RV's. You just have to find the right one. How're you supposed to build time in an RV if no one will insure you?!

 

[videobobk]

A bit off topic, but I would be really hesitant about a student learning in an RV for at least the first 20-30 hours or so. I made a lot of REALLY interesting landings in the 150! Plus, I can get by with some pretty sloppy rudder use in the RV that I never could in the planes I trained in.

Perhaps starting in a trainer and then transitioning to the RV sometime before earning the license might be better, both for the plane and for insurance options.

A bit different opinion here. I believe our first RV-12 was the first to be used for flight instruction, and we have used it for training for over a year now. I see no real negatives. First, the instructor must "know" the airplane, just like any other. A true beginner really doesn't know what he needs to learn, and will learn the skills necessary for the plane he/she is flying. This is why we need to transition from one to another; necessary skills and important numbers vary. We have had one very low time solo, and none excessive. The students have to "transition" to a Cessna, same as they would learning in in a Cessna and moving to an RV. Several other 12s are being used in flight schools, and don't seem to cause real problems. Students love them, and that helps in acceptance and learning rate. Operating costs will allow for more students to fly more often, also. The 12 IS a trainer!

Insurance is hard to find, but available. We have it.

Bob

 

[Low Pass]

A bit off topic, but I would be really hesitant about a student learning in an RV for at least the first 20-30 hours or so. I made a lot of REALLY interesting landings in the 150! Plus, I can get by with some pretty sloppy rudder use in the RV that I never could in the planes I trained in.

Perhaps starting in a trainer and then transitioning to the RV sometime before earning the license might be better, both for the plane and for insurance options.

Good point. I'd recommend a Cub or Champ. Original author knows where that comes from...

 

[DonFromTX]

I tend to agree with this take on training. Due to drunk CFI, plane availability, etc, I had to learn to fly three different planes before I could earn my license. I may be leaning challenged, but trying to remember all that stuff about 3 different planes sure made me less safe and took me a lot longer to learn.

A bit different opinion here. I believe our first RV-12 was the first to be used for flight instruction, and we have used it for training for over a year now. I see no real negatives. First, the instructor must "know" the airplane, just like any other. A true beginner really doesn't know what he needs to learn, and will learn the skills necessary for the plane he/she is flying. This is why we need to transition from one to another; necessary skills and important numbers vary. We have had one very low time solo, and none excessive. The students have to "transition" to a Cessna, same as they would learning in in a Cessna and moving to an RV. Several other 12s are being used in flight schools, and don't seem to cause real problems. Students love them, and that helps in acceptance and learning rate. Operating costs will allow for more students to fly more often, also. The 12 IS a trainer!

Insurance is hard to find, but available. We have it.

Bob

 

[alpinelakespilot2000]

A bit different opinion here. I believe our first RV-12

You may be right on the -12, Bob. Since this was in an rv9 thread, that was what I was thinking... Particularly with the potential for very hard landings early on. I've never flown a 12, so maybe it's gear (and nosewheel especially) is more forgiving of the sometimes very hamfisted mistakes solo student pilots like me all too often made/make. That's where the C150 really shined.

 

[ben barron]

I got insurance as a student pilot in my 8. Aviators Insurance was the broker, US Specialty Insurance Company was the provider.

I have been trying to secure Insurance as a student to fly the rv12 I am building with no luck so far. Are you over 59? Who did you work with at Avaitors?