climberrn

climberrn

Well Known Member
I will be picking up my QB-7 wings and fuse at the factory this month. I have been reading some older posts about poor quality, but they are from 2005-2006.

1. How are the newer QB's turning out?
2. Is there anything specific I should inspect upon delivery at Vans?
3. Any other parts I should pick up while up there to save on future shipping/delays?

Obviously, I will go over each step in the manual once home as time allows, but I just want to know what to look for at the time of pickup. The kit will not be crated, since it will be picked up with an enclosed trailer.

Thank You,

Joel.
 
I just got my -10 fuse, so many of my -10 specific findings aren't going to be the same. But it did require a 'Step - By - Step - By - Step' review and inspection of their work. The work that was completed isn't done specifically as the plans suggest. You have to check every single step and figure it out.

Generally speaking though.

1) Rivet work is fantastic.

2) Deburring is acceptable.

3) The factory's ability to follow the plans. Terrible. (Talking specifically about part fabrication as suggested in the plans).

4) Completeness of the kit. Terrible. (Many factory parts were not shipped with the QB kit. They disappeared somewhere between here and there.)

5) The factory's ability to understand how their decisions to not to follow the plans impacts your build in the future. Non-existent.

6) Torque wrench use? Non-Existent unless you plan on torquing your AN3 hardware into the 80's.

7) Prep work for priming the aluminum. Terrible. I'm now removing corrosion from my QB kit. They never bothered to remove hand or fingerprints before putting on the wash primer. Now I have filiform (around 15 patches of it) between the aluminum and primer. Watch for the darker areas of your primer and watch them very closely. For me the corrosion has appeared to be white filiform in these dark areas.

I don't regret buying a QB kit. It's saving me time. But I've spent more time redoing their work than I have building. That's getting close to 3 months now.

Just check everything closely and keep watching it closely over time.

Phil
 
Last edited:
Tough to catch

It is tough to catch some stuff. I had a bulhead with a buckle in it, I did not see, this until I started working on the fuselage. It did not require any repair according to Van's but I have had several issues with my QB, most I have worked through but like the above poster said, I have had to drill out and replace some parts that were not built to specifications. One console was bent wrong, and I had numerous parts that were not included. I just riveted on my tail skin and did not have enough rivets, I still have the forward top skin to go and I am out of the required rivets.

I am glad I did the QB but the fixing errors is a pain, and frustrating. I also have several rivets to drill out that were supposed to be left out, there a some keeper rivets to drill out but these are regular AN rivets where flap fairing are supposed to attach. I did not have issues with corrosion.

Cheers
 
Phil said:
I just got my -10 fuse, so many of my -10 specific findings aren't going to be the same. But it did require a 'Step - By - Step - By - Step' review and inspection of their work. The work that was completed isn't done specifically as the plans suggest. You have to check every single step and figure it out.

Generally speaking though.

1) Rivet work is fantastic.

2) Deburring is acceptable.

3) The factory's ability to follow the plans. Terrible. (Talking specifically about part fabrication as suggested in the plans).

4) Completeness of the kit. Terrible. (Many factory parts were not shipped with the QB kit. They disappeared somewhere between here and there.)

5) The factory's ability to understand how their decisions to not to follow the plans impacts your build in the future. Non-existent.

6) Torque wrench use? Non-Existent unless you plan on torquing your AN3 hardware into the 80's.

7) Prep work for priming the aluminum. Terrible. I'm now removing corrosion from my QB kit. They never bothered to remove hand or fingerprints before putting on the wash primer. Now I have filiform (around 15 patches of it) between the aluminum and primer. Watch for the darker areas of your primer and watch them very closely. For me the corrosion has appeared to be white filiform in these dark areas.

I don't regret buying a QB kit. It's saving me time. But I've spent more time redoing their work than I have building. That's getting close to 3 months now.

Just check everything closely and keep watching it closely over time.

Phil
Click to expand...

This is a surprise to me and maybe others considering the QB route. I had no idea there were such shortcomings in the QB kits. I have considered going this route, but this post has me scratching my head. Have others had similar results? Especially with the RV 7 or 9 QB kits?
 
RV-9 QB. Excellent work ! Happy with it, was built in 2006 BF (before flood) priming somewhat an issue, but not worried as some, as I had a piper with NO corrosion proofing for 30 yrs, and had no corrosion problems at all. Had only one issue, a dinged lower skin, but no biggie, can be fixed.
 
QB 7

My QB 7 was delivered in 06. The work was very good, nothing left out, and nothing damaged. Was shipped before due date. Would go that route again if building another.
 
Reconsidering???

Wow, this is a real eye-opener. I am just finishing the practice kit and was about the order the tail kit (8/8A), but now I'm wondering what to do. I really thought I needed the QB kit in order to get flying sooner--plan was to have the bird in the air by retirement (about 4 years). Now I'm questioning whether the extra $10k is worth it for the QB. Thought I had a firm plan, but now I am reconsidering my options. :confused:

Sky
 
What concerns me is that I'm brand new to RVs and if I have to rely on my own inspection of a QB kit, I'm not sure I would know what to look for from a quality control aspect.
 
I picked up my QB in April of 08 and every thing looked really good there and upon much closer inspection at home I found essentially nothing wrong and really excellent work. I don't know how I would detect bad deburring but all the rivets were excellent and did not detect any issues with priming either.
As for the parts go, I found a couple a few items on back order but never had to stop because of lack of parts.

It took me 14 months from start to the first flight and that included two months for painting, so if I am to build another one, I will surely go the same route.

Mehrdad
RV7A - IO360M1B
 
skyking902001 said:
Wow, this is a real eye-opener. I am just finishing the practice kit and was about the order the tail kit (8/8A), but now I'm wondering what to do. I really thought I needed the QB kit in order to get flying sooner--plan was to have the bird in the air by retirement (about 4 years). Now I'm questioning whether the extra $10k is worth it for the QB. Thought I had a firm plan, but now I am reconsidering my options. :confused:

Sky
Click to expand...

Four years is plenty of time to build a standard kit even when life occasionally gets in the way.

When considering whether or not to go QB, please keep in mind the current standard kits are far more refined than the old RV-6 kits were when the QB option first appeared. The new, highly fabricated standard kits blur the build timeline between standard and QB.

Regardless of which option you take, once the airframe is hammered together all builders are facing the same time frame for completion. Since riveting together the airframe only accounts for ~50% of the total project, a QB will save you at most 25% time on the total project.

The standard kit builder will have a more complete knowledge of his plane. Spend your QB $$$'s on avionics and firewall forward. :)
 
Sam Buchanan said:
Four years is plenty of time to build a standard kit even when life occasionally gets in the way.
.......... Since riveting together the airframe only accounts for ~50% of the total project, a QB will save you at most 25% time on the total project.
........:)
Click to expand...

Sam good point, unless a persons available time is tight. I went QB, mostly because I knew I had other irons in the fire. Back when I bought my QB, I had more money than time. When I started one requirement from the CFO was this airplane can not impact family time. There was times I didn't touch the project for months, SO to save 800hrs or 200hrs was significant. Now the $8000 extra I paid would be nice.

3yrs now, I'm probably the slowest QB ever.

What concerns me is that I'm brand new to RVs and if I have to rely on my own inspection of a QB kit, I'm not sure I would know what to look for from a quality control aspect.
Click to expand...

My guess is, as a new builder you may not do as good a job as Metalcrafters. So from a quality control aspect, the majority QB's coming from phillipines are ahead of the first time builder quality(with minor fixes needed). YMMV
 
Keep in mind, it's not my intention to slam the QB's and I said that if I had it to do again, I'd buy another quick build. There is absolutely no doubt that it's saving me a huge amount of time and I will be in the air much faster.

That being said, I'd have a little different expectation for my next QB. So when it arrives, I would be expecting a lot of redo work instead of building through the process.

Phil
 
QB quality 7A

My fuse and wing kit took the long way round: Phillipines > Oregon for QA check > Sydney. The day after I collected the 2 boxes from the shipping terminal in Sydney, I went to London for a month (new definition of frustration).

I had a very close look on my return and found the workmanship to be very good, but detailed checking of the inventory of 'bits and pieces' found more bits missing than I would have expected.

Vans was quick to respond and I am expecting replacements this week.

Hope this helps.

Regards, Ray
 
Phil said:
Keep in mind, it's not my intention to slam the QB's and I said that if I had it to do again, I'd buy another quick build. There is absolutely no doubt that it's saving me a huge amount of time and I will be in the air much faster.
Click to expand...

I don't want to belabor the point, but until a builder has completed an RV the amount of time required for firewall forward, avionics, plumbing and painting cannot be fully appreciated. These are tasks the QB builder will spend as much time on as the standard builder. The "80% done, 80% to go" hurdle hits all of us. :)

I think the percentage of time saved with a QB over the current kits is often overestimated. Before deciding on the QB option, some time spent discussing this matter with builders who have completed planes might be worthwhile.
 
Not arguing that point, Sam... But I can promise you the QB has saved me at least a year of evenings and weekends. At my rate that's about 350-400 hours and another year I don't have to wait.
 
Phil said:
Not arguing that point, Sam... But I can promise you the QB has saved me at least a year of evenings and weekends. At my rate that's about 350-400 hours and another year I don't have to wait.
Click to expand...


exactly, what I was trying to say.
 
Replys

Thanks all for the replys. At this point I feel somewhat better about the quality of the later QB kits. Will wait until the tail is finished to make a final decision on QB or SB.

Sky
8 or 8A?
 
Hey Sky,

That's a good idea.

I got one of the very first QB's from the new factory, so I'm sure they're going to get better. The more time you give them to get it sorted out, the better they're going to be.

Good luck with the build!
Phil
 
Thanks for all the replies. I am looking forward to continuing the build. The shop has been closed since March, (due to waiting for QB, and work). Will be able to devote full time for the next few months.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.