[ShadesOfGray]

Sometime in the next year or so I am hoping to begin building an RV. I've already made some of the easy design decisions, and I am trying to make some of the more technical ones now as well. I know I want an RV-7, taildragger, with a 200 HP lycoming engine, fixed speed prop.

I'd like to make my airplane IFR capable, and I'm open to either steam or glass cockpit. So:

1. Ballpark, what will a steam-guage IFR panel cost, and what will a glass IFR panel of similar capabilities cost?
2. What is a good place to start reading to learn about different autopilots, guages, and the other systems I will need?
3. If I want to install an autopilot and related systems, where does that come in to my assembly? I guess I just don't know enough about how autopilots actually work. But, for example, if I want an autopilot, would it be a bad idea for me to completely assemble my empennage? Do certain parts of the assembly need to be left off in order to leave me with the capability of installing an autopilot?

Thanks... Yeah I'm a noob.

 

[java]

Some ideas...

...for what it's worth.

1) This is a hard question to answer, because one person's IFR capable panel is different from anothers. All new, or some used equipment? Top 'o the line large, color moving map three screen system, or just what you need to be legal? It's a very personal decision, so you'll have to do some research on your own to really figure it out.

2) You're in the right place now. Learn how to use the forum search function and there is tons of stuff to get you started.

3) Go ahead with the emp. There is nothing in it related to the autopilot. For the 7, there will be a pitch servo (if you choose) mounted in the fuselage, just behind the baggage compartment at the elevator bellcrank. Easy to install even in a completed aircraft. There will also be a roll servo mounted in the wing (if you choose). Commonly, it is installed at the bellcrank just inside an inspection port, so can be installed in a finished wing, though much easier to do before the final skin riveting. You will also have to consider wiring runs, but by the time you get there, you will understand it easily.

Don't get yourself tied in knots over these issues. You will have ample time to understand how things go together as you build. Really, the only big decisions you need to make in order to get started is what model (which you've already decided), and whether you want manual or electric trim. Many "decisions" are also "reversible" as well. Decide later that you want to add altitude hold to your autopilot, or install an IFR capable GPS? It can be done... I won't get into the primer decision .

 

[PJSeipel]

I'll just chime in on #1: My advice is to wait as long as possible to buy your instruments/avionics/autopilot. I bought mine when I thought I was ready for them and it turns out I could have waited almost another 6-9 months before I was really ready to install them. The experimental EFIS and autopilot markets are becoming very competitive and if you buy too soon you may find that you've missed out on an opportunity to get something even better. All you have to do is look at the new offerings by GRT, Dynon, MGL, TruTrak, etc... in the last few months and you'll see what I mean.

PJ Seipel
RV-10 #40032

 

[Sam Buchanan]

Sometime in the next year or so I am hoping to begin building an RV. I've already made some of the easy design decisions, and I am trying to make some of the more technical ones now as well. I know I want an RV-7, taildragger, with a 200 HP lycoming engine, fixed speed prop.

I'd like to make my airplane IFR capable, and I'm open to either steam or glass cockpit. So:

1. Ballpark, what will a steam-guage IFR panel cost, and what will a glass IFR panel of similar capabilities cost?
2. What is a good place to start reading to learn about different autopilots, guages, and the other systems I will need?
3. If I want to install an autopilot and related systems, where does that come in to my assembly? I guess I just don't know enough about how autopilots actually work. But, for example, if I want an autopilot, would it be a bad idea for me to completely assemble my empennage? Do certain parts of the assembly need to be left off in order to leave me with the capability of installing an autopilot?

Thanks... Yeah I'm a noob.

I'm not even going to attempt to answer your questions concerning panel costs, etc because by the time you are ready to purchase stuff my answers would be totally invalid.

I will, however, invite you to visit with the Tennessee Valley RV Builders Group where you can pick the brains of a bunch of folks who have already built RVs. In case you aren't already hopelessly confused, we can complete the process.

http://www.tvrvbg.org

 

[breister]

In answer to the original posters' question about cost differential between comparable steam gage vs. glass IFR panel costs, the trend is definitely favoring glass. When you factor in the susceptibility of delicate mechanical instruments to vibration compared to solid-state circuits, and the ability of single displays to combine multiple functions thus allowing you to put more redundancy in the same real estate, I don't think there is any reasonable comparison - Glass wins.

 

[ShadesOfGray]

You will have ample time to understand how things go together as you build.

I guess I had thought, based on the Vans website, that it would make a lot more sense to get all the design decisions made before I begin construction. I'm hoping to build a QB kit, and perhaps try to complete the airplane in as little as a year or a year and a half of hard working. With that in mind, and finances permitting, wouldn't it make more sense to make all the design decisions early on, and order everything so that it's sitting on the shelf next to me when I'm ready to install it?

Anyway, thanks for the help. Clearly there is a lot to be learned from this forum. I guess part of my problem has been that, with my level of knowledge about some of these systems (basically nil) it is hard to read and make sense of some of the posts on these systems. But I think I'm making progress.

 

[Mike S]

wouldn't it make more sense to make all the design decisions early on,

Design decisions----yes, make them early.

Glass vs. steam is a design issue. Ditto slider/tip up, or where does the steering wheel go. Lighting, auto pilot or not-------

However choosing which brand, or model of an item is something I would wait on as long as you can--------especially for electronics!!!

and order everything so that it's sitting on the shelf next to me when I'm ready to install it?

This goes back to the design specifics you come up with. If going steam gauges for example, altimeter design is pretty fixed-----having one on the shelf probably wont generate "if only I woulda waited" statements as much as an EFIS will.

Also, certain item go bad sitting on the shelf for too long------batteries, various chemicals, tires/tubes ETC.

Having your finish kit on the shelf makes sense, as you will be using various parts of to do setup well before actually needing to install them.

Nuts and bolts, rivets, other hardware----on the shelf for sure.

Clearly there is a lot to be learned from this forum.

Absolutely. You are going to learn things you didnt even know you didnt know

Enjoy the ride.

 

[java]

Design decisions...

I guess I had thought, based on the Vans website, that it would make a lot more sense to get all the design decisions made before I begin construction. I'm hoping to build a QB kit, and perhaps try to complete the airplane in as little as a year or a year and a half of hard working. With that in mind, and finances permitting, wouldn't it make more sense to make all the design decisions early on, and order everything so that it's sitting on the shelf next to me when I'm ready to install it?

Anyway, thanks for the help. Clearly there is a lot to be learned from this forum. I guess part of my problem has been that, with my level of knowledge about some of these systems (basically nil) it is hard to read and make sense of some of the posts on these systems. But I think I'm making progress.

Big decision with the emp is manual or elec trim. I think you also have to decide if you want a light in the rudder. Can probably change your mind without too much grief on either of these.

Big decisions with your QB fuse will be TW vs. NW, and tipup vs. slider. A little tougher to change your mind on these once you have the goods and start down the road (not to say is hasn't, or couldn't be done). A few small decisions that can be backed into easily (i.e. dual brakes, aileron trim, etc.)

There are no real big decisions on the wings, assuming you are quickbuild. Servo mount, as mentioned before, and probably good idea to think about wire runs and lighting, but you don't necessarily have to buy it all at the point you order your wings.

Finish kit get's back to a few decisions. Need to decide on engine and vertical vs. horiz induction (if relevant). You will have already decided on your canopy when you ordered the fuse, so no heartache there. The first instance of needing finish kit components will be when you go to attach your wings to your fuse the first time, so you have awhile.

I know what you're saying about wanting to get it done in a year / year and a half. I'd suggest you'll probably delay yourself more by spending months agonizing over decisions you don't have a basis to decide on yet, than you will waiting for parts to arrive. Not only that, but if anyone on the list can honestly say that they never changed one decision from start to first flight on their first RV build, I'll eat my hat. Why lock yourself in when you don't have to? Also, you will learn lots of stuff as you go along that lead to many smaller decisions you aren't even aware of now (and are different for everyone, so can't even be laid out for you, i.e. some gnash their teeth over hinges or camloc's for their cowl, others don't even question it and do it per plans).

Panel stuff? Dream now... plan in about a year (or two, or three), buy when you're ready to install.

It all starts to clear up as you build. Even a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. Keep the destination in mind, and be prepared to change course as required to get there.
YMMV.