[sglynn]

With the coming on strong of iPAD (and DROID) apps like ForeFlight and Garmin Pilot (and others) it seems the need for in panel EFIS / GPS is changing. With Garmin Pilot on my tablet I get everything I need for navigation so why would I want to pay for it on an EFIS like Dynon, Advanced etc? And with add on antennas I can add traffic and weather to the iPAD.

I'm still building my RV-7A but flying my Cherokee with standard 6-pack Garmin 430 and Samsung Tablet with Garmin Pilot. And this seems very powerful. I get certified IFR with the GARIM 430. I get huge situational awareness with the Tablet.

So I think my need for in-dash equipment is changing to be just EFIS, engine analyzer and a separate 430. How much extra am I paying the EFIS manufactures for GPS and maps? $2,000?

I thought I'd be buying the large screen EFIS like Dynon or G3X, or Advanced or etc next year to finish my RV, but maybe all I need is 6-pack only, from these guys.

Seems like the Garmin Pilot functionality on a PAD will canablize Garmin's hardware GPS's because the iPAD version does it all.

Interesting development. Comments?

 

[southtarnation]

From the title of the thread I was wondering down another line. My whiskey compass hates the ipad and will not read close to accurate with the ipad nearby. I thought you may be wonding what its affect on a modern efis might be, i sure do now.

 

[Dynon]

Steve,
We're biased, but:

1. We don't update our operating system only for new devices leaving old devices in the dust. The latest Foreflight can't run older iPads, ones sold only 24 months ago! Do you want to have to re-do your panel every two years to keep your iPad software up to date?
   
2. Mapping in SkyView is $500, less than the cost of an iPad, and you only pay this once per airplane, not per screen.
   
3. Airports, airspaces, obstacles, etc, are free databases, not a per year subscription.
   
4. Charts and airport diagrams are $99 a year, not $149 like in Foreflight
   
5. You can couple our autopilot to our flight plan. An iPad has no way to get data out of the iPad to an autopilot or external device.
   
6. If you have two SkyView screens in the plane and one fails, the other still has a map so you have redundant everything.
   
7. The screen brightness and non-reflectivity of a SkyView screen is far superior to an iPad, and SkyView dims more deeply for night flight as well.
   
8. We can do auto alerts into your headset for things like approaching waypoints or traffic alerts
   
9. SkyView is designed to be in a cockpit. iPads have been known to overheat.
   
10. Built in mapping means we can tie in to things like the engine computer and give you data like fuel at your waypoint
    
11. Databases in SkyView mean we can tune your radios for you when you look them up on the screen and just press "TUNE." Again, the iPad has no way to talk to other instruments.
    
12. Using our ADS-B receiver gets super-accurate traffic, TFRs and WX on our map AND PFD without needing some portable device rattling around in your plane and overheating.

Now, Foreflight is an awesome piece of software, but so is Dynon's mapping and it's something we're very proud of both in cost and features. There are some serious tradeoffs to using a device like an iPad in the cockpit, especially in an experimental when you have so many other great, affordable options. It's worth considering your mission and what you really want to do.

Swing down to our offices in Woodinville (and maybe apply for that job!), and let us show you how much capability SkyView has in the mapping area, and how much better an installed GPS is than a iPad for use when you are actually in-flight, all for less money than just the iPad would cost you.

Plus, this picture says it all, and this was in a high wing airplane with no sun on the panel on the way to OSH:

--Ian Jordan
Dynon Avionics

 

[dutchroll]

As stated above, I think there's quite a big difference between purpose designed "in-panel" EFIS & nav displays, and the adaptation of a device which was designed for a completely different purpose all together. Not to mention avoiding a thick soup of cords, plugs, adaptors, holders, brackets and so on in your cockpit.

It's useful for those of us who don't have room for the nice stuff from Dynon, AFS, GRT, etc, however unlike those guys, Apple will never optimise the iPad hardware or operating software for an aircraft environment.

 

[Rhino889]

Love this combo.

Big picture on iPad. Set about 100-120mile scale for weather and flight plan.

Smaller picture on skyview. 20-40 miles for traffic and airspace avoidance.

Redundant navigation system: Big positive. When the iPad fails, you still have a skyview.

When your skyview gets fried by the runaway autozone alternator... You can fly home using the iPad.

 

[Dynon]

SkyView runs fine at 35V, won't be damaged by 60V, and has a backup battery if the main power supply get shot. You need a more creative failure scenario to take out your SkyView!

It's more likely the fried alternator will kill your $15 iPad adapter and take out your iPad

 

[Gash]

One thing that wasn't mentioned was the Skyview's HSI. My Garmin GTN-650 sends nav data through the ARINC to the Skyview and presents a beautiful HSI. My glass panel HSI now costs less than half what a traditional HSI costs, and the Skyview has no moving parts (well, I guess the cooling fan is the only moving part).

I also find the Skyview EMS to be absolutely indispensable.

I also carry an iPad for charts and pubs using Foreflight. Having both in the cockpit is in my opinion the perfect combination.

 

[Rhino889]

SkyView runs fine at 35V, won't be damaged by 60V, and has a backup battery if the main power supply get shot. You need a more creative failure scenario to take out your SkyView!

It's more likely the fried alternator will kill your $15 iPad adapter and take out your iPad

Ask Steve about it.

Had nothing to do with Dynon. However, you guys took amazing care of me. I will always be a Dynon customer after the amazing care Dynon provided me.

This is a Public "thank you" for the treatment you show your customers.

Regards,

Scott

 

[GalinHdz]

With the coming on strong of iPAD (and DROID) apps like ForeFlight and Garmin Pilot (and others) it seems the need for in panel EFIS / GPS is changing. With Garmin Pilot on my tablet I get everything I need for navigation so why would I want to pay for it on an EFIS like Dynon, Advanced etc? And with add on antennas I can add traffic and weather to the iPAD.

So, you would trust your life and that of your passenger to an iPad during that one in a million scenario pilots train to overcome? I don't and I am a die hard iPad/Foreflight user.

 

[SteinAir]

I'm also an iPad fanboy...but...I pretty much wouldn't count on it for anything other than it is - a consumer grade product with a ton of neat capability that provides us a good way to get charts/plates for a reasonable price. What it is not is an effective tool for display of flight instruments like an EFIS. We have a bunch of iPad's and other tablets around here with Foreflight, WingX, Garmin pilot and other apps on them that we can run wirelessly to our ADSB box; that is about the extent of what I'd use them for. One needs to realize that the physical hardware is in a different league than any of the popular EFISes out there (AFS/Dynon/Garmin/GRT). The various "I" products are fantastic and I own a pile of them. I even use the iPad on almost every flight (sometimes just to send my music list wirelessly to my audio panel). That said, in the sun they are pretty poor for any real world use of actual flight instruments. Plus, I'd really be nervous about counting on any of the consumer grade OS/Hardware platforms as the foundation for a flight instrument.

My 2 cents is use an iPad for what it is (and many of us love them for what they are), but at this point the hardware/software/interfaces are just not ready to be made into something they are not. To be blunt, I consider most of those various and sundry apps/interfaces to other gyro packages to be somewhat of a novelty at this point. Yes they probably could be used, but best not to. In the scheme of things the cost for any of these good EFIS systems is so reasonable that I wouldn't forgo it in lieu of a tablet for primary flight instrumentation or mapping. For that reason stick with a normal production product from the most popular folks out there.

Cheers,
Stein

 

[Ironflight]

What Stein said! I love my iPad, and love my various EFIS's - all for the jobs for which they are intended....

 

[tmendy]

Ipad

Ipad

IMHO

Older steam gage birds:

IFR/VFR Flying; adf vor/nav only, or antiquated fms, the ipad with Foreflight is a godsend (I'm sure WingX is great to);
Geo-ref vfr low/hi alt charts and plates, flight plan, direct to function, weather, fish finder, tfr's..........
Best backup and cross check ever. I wouldn't consider being without it.

Modern glass birds:

I have found I just put it aside in the plane.

 

[grubbat]

IPAD

I love the IPad for weather and traffic but it stopped working on several occasions and I just can't trust it for anything other than what I currently use it for. Also, the glare is tough sometimes.