H

humaround

I'm New Here
Hello

I'm an RV6 share-owner in the UK.

As you probably know, owners of home-built (and certain factory-built) aircraft in the UK, known as Permit aircraft, are not allowed to fly at night or in IMC.

A few of us are working up a campaign to get this altered, and I'm looking for operational information from countries where such aircraft ARE allowed these privileges. I'd be extremely grateful if you would take a few moments to answer these questions:

1 Do you ever fly an Experimental category aircraft in IMC or at night?
2 Routinely or occasionally? What is your usual level of currency?
3 Approximately how many hours would you expect to fly IMC/Night yearly?
4 What instruments does your aircraft have (relevant to IMC/Night)?
5 What are your personal IMC minima?
6 In your view, what are the essential characteristics of your aircraft in relation to flying IMC/Night?

Any other general views and information on this subject would be welcome.

Please feel free either to email me personally or post your experience in this thread.

[email protected]

Any information you are able to provide will be collated anonymously and used in our campaign in the UK, and possibly more widely in Europe.

many thanks in advance!

safe flying

David Pick

G-GDRV RV6
G-AYTR Emeraude
 
night/IMC

Hi David.

I am currently building my RV-9. I plan to fly at night but no plans for IFR at this time. We have the FAR (Federal Aviation Regulations). This publication describes what equipment and currency is required for night and IFR flying. If you can get your hands on an FAR publication that would give you a lot of information to help with your cause.

My night flying has been a 5% night - 95% day split because of the cost of rental aircraft. Once I own my own I will fly more at night - I love it!

Hope this helps,

Robert
 
Personal minima

I routinely fly VFR night and occasional IMC since I got my rating in March and its Summer now..:(

I won't fly at night over mountains and you'd have to twist my arm to do it IMC...Now we're talking mountains...Like a range that goes up to 11k right in my back yard....like almost 3 times as high as Ben Nevis..:)

I'd shoot a precision aproach down to about 4 to 500feet, and a non presision down to 900 to 1000' AGL.

I needs a good Winter's practice to get lower.

Frank 7a EX Pat Brit.
 
I fly my RV-6 at night when I need to. The airplane has basic attitude flying instruments and GPS for navigation. No autopilot. I have been flying for 50 years, and have perhaps 400 hrs of night flying experience. Most of my flying has been in low slow airplanes. I've been flying my RV-6 for a little more than three years. I've had no difficulty flying it at night.
 
humaround said:
1 Do you ever fly an Experimental category aircraft in IMC or at night?
2 Routinely or occasionally? What is your usual level of currency?
3 Approximately how many hours would you expect to fly IMC/Night yearly?
4 What instruments does your aircraft have (relevant to IMC/Night)?
5 What are your personal IMC minima?
6 In your view, what are the essential characteristics of your aircraft in relation to flying IMC/Night?
Click to expand...

1. Yes
2. Occasionally...current but not by much
3. Exact data supplied below...
4. Dynon EFIS-D10, TruTrak Pictorial Pilot + AlTrak (2-axis), Garmin 496, airspeed/altimeter/VSI, AF-2500, GMA-340, GX60, SL30, GTX-320A; a/c is equipped for night & IFR
5. When I'm current, as published
6. Night is not a big deal if the airplane's electrical system is built reliably. I don't believe night & IFR should be coupled conceptually. For flight in IMC, an AUTOPILOT is a must-have imho. The relatively neutral roll stability can quickly create problems if you let it get away from you, i.e. for simple tasks that necessarily draw attention away from your scan. If the wings are level, pitch is stable enough so as not to create any significant deviations -- but if the wings are not level, all bets are off. This is why I believe an autopilot is an essential tool for safe IFR in a short-wing RV.

My credentials & exact data as of July 15, 2007 follows...it is ONLY my flight time & stats in my RV-7, it does not represent my complete stats.

- Commercial Pilot, Single- & Multi-Engine Land Instrument Airplane

- Total flight time in N714D: 1345.6 hours

- Day landings in N714D: 1549 (92.7%)
- Night landings in N714D: 122 (7.3%)

- Night time in N714D: 61.7 hours (4.6%)

- Actual instrument time in N714D: 33.9 hours (2.5%)
- Simulated instrument time in N714D: 2.5 hours (0.2%)

- Instrument approaches in N714D: 48

To summarize:

Less than 5% of my flying is at night. That is NOT a reflection of the aircraft's capability or lack thereof.

Less than 3% of my flying is under IFR. That is partly due to my being based in an area where the weather is fair much of the time, and partly due to the fact that I only fly IFR when I "need" to.
 
humaround said:
1 Do you ever fly an Experimental category aircraft in IMC or at night?
2 Routinely or occasionally? What is your usual level of currency?
3 Approximately how many hours would you expect to fly IMC/Night yearly?
4 What instruments does your aircraft have (relevant to IMC/Night)?
5 What are your personal IMC minima?
6 In your view, what are the essential characteristics of your aircraft in relation to flying IMC/Night?
Click to expand...

My views are going to be very similar to Dan's, actually....

1) Yes - both
2) Routinely IFR, Occasionally night, because I'd rather be sleeping! I either have to specifically want to go out and fly at night, or just be coming home late.
3) Night, only a few. IMC - actually "IMC" is only a few as well - much more time IFR but in visual conditions.
4) Full EFIS, IFR GPS and two additional GPS's, Autopilot, XM weather, VOR/LOC/GS, Dual Comms, redundant electrical, backup instruments.
5) Generally the legal minima for approaches, but I like to have a rock solid alternate within conservative fuel range. No ice even hinted at. No IMC near significant thunderstorm activity.
6) I agree with Dan on the autopilot. I flew a twitchy two-place Grumman IFR or years without one (very similar to a -6a or -7a), and it required lots of attention! Realistically, from a regulatory standpoint, there should be no difference (in my mind) between certified and experimental for IFR operations. As long as an aircraft is properly equipped, it should be allowed in the system. A much bigger issue is pilot capability, currency, and education. Many people maintain legal currency but never do any "continuing education" - getting smarter on the aspects of instrument flight that actually lead people to bad endings. To me, instrument flying is a thinking man's game, and you need new information all the time to keep yourself thinking.

Good luck with your government!

Paul
 
IFR flying

My issue is what exactly is IFR flying? I generally file IFR but with my GPS and my autopilot it seems silly to log in my logbook that I flew 0.9 (or whatever) on instruments without outside references. If I closed my eyes the plane would happily drone in and out of clouds without my input. Even approaches are an order of magnitude easier due to the electronics.

The value of getting my IFR ticket is that I understand weather (and weather forecasting) A LOT better and my radio work is a lot stronger.

I sometimes feel like I am kidding myself when I log IMC time when I hear a friend of mine talking about flying F-106s in close formation in IMC at night with little or no electronic help.

bruce
N297NW
 
Thanks for the responses, folks, keep them coming...

And thanks to those who have emailed me.

best

David Pick
G-GDRV RV6
G-AYTR Emeraude
 
In the 2 years since I completed my plane I have flown 450 hours. About 50% of the hours are night, since flying locally early in the morning before work is when I have the time to fly. I don't fly at night over mountains and rarely fly night IMC. About 10% of the hours have been in actual IMC, primarily on long x-country flights, and I have been able to maintain currency and proficiency flying in actual IMC. I have a standard 6 pack with a 430, SL30, and digitrac autopilot. I use the AP a lot enroute and about 50% of the time for approaches, and agree with others that it is invaluable in reducing workload during single pilot IFR. The key to safety in IFR/night flight has more to do with pilot proficiency than the airplane, though you have to be practical in that not all aircraft, no matter how they are equiped, are well suited to safe flight in IMC.
 
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