A

apatti

Well Known Member
Anyone out there in an 8/8A getting instrument check rides? Can the check pilot see the instrument panel well enough to monitor your performance?

Thanks,
 
The short answer is..

No. Due to the rear seat being somewhat lower it is very hard for the backseater to see the panel at all. I am 6' 3" and my favorite CFII is 6' 1". Seated normally, she can't see any of the panel.

John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
equippage?

have wondered the same thing- - and thought about what it would take to convince the examiner the an -8 would be suitable. thinking that it would take lots of monies to put the needed instruments in back for that purpose. at the same time, it seems silly to have to rent a side-by-side when you own your own plane!
 
Back seat instruction

We used to have this discussion regarding Beechcrafts with "throw-over" yokes and no brakes on the right side. The FAA view was that if it was OK with the examiner or designee it was OK with them. This assumes trust in the pilot by the examiner. The case of the RV8 is a little more complex. In the back seat, with no brakes, no instruments, and no access to the avionics is going to make a checkride a little tough. For example, how can the examiner fail avionics or instruments?

The more basic problem is how do you instruct from the back seat? I'm afraid a side by side is the only practical answer.

John S. Clark ATP, CFI
RV8 N18U KSBA
FAAST Team Representative
 
IFR check RV-8/8A

Rob Hickman is apparently working on a "repeater" screen to show info from AFS3400/3500 in the back seat. It this becomes available I'll get one for my -8 - this plus a hand held GPS and good communication should permit adequate rear seat monitoring with the right examiner (I think). What do others think about this? Bill
 
John Clark said:
... For example, how can the examiner fail avionics or instruments?
Click to expand...

This brings up another interesting question... "How does an examiner fail the instruments in a glass cockpit?" It doesn't really make sense (and isn't possible to my knowledge) to somehow fail just an attitude indicator and DG. It seems like the "failure mode" imposed by an examiner would have to match the individual design of the aircraft. Just following standard partial panel approach requirements would not be appropriate.

Has anyone had a IFR checkride or ICC in an all glass cockpit? Do they fail your EFIS? What if you have two independent EFIS'? Do they fail one or both? Inquiring minds want to know...

Thanks,
 
Tony,

I would think they could have you turn off the EFIS and fly by whatever backup instruments you have installed. The thinking is the EFIS is an all or nothing deal, either it works or it doesn't.

The problem there is that in the back of an -8, he/she won't be able to see what is going on up front.
 
Yes, things are going to fail

apatti said:
Has anyone had a IFR checkride or ICC in an all glass cockpit? Do they fail your EFIS? What if you have two independent EFIS'? Do they fail one or both? Inquiring minds want to know... Thanks,
Click to expand...

It is covered in the Instrument Rating Practical Test Standards (FAA-S-8081-4D)

"The abnormal or emergency procedure for loss of the electronic flight instrument display appropriate to the aircraft will be evaluated in the Loss of Primary Instruments TASK. The loss of the primary electronic flight instrument display must be tailored to failures that would normally be encountered in the aircraft. If the aircraft is capable, total failure of the electronic flight display, or a supporting component, with access only to the standby flight instruments or backup display shall be evaluated."



John Clark ATP, CFI
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
IFR check

If you have two totally independent EFIS's and the primary is failed, can flight continue on the second EFIS? My setup is AFS3400 and DynonD10A, both with batteries and free of interconnects. Seems legit to me. Bill
 
Bill Dicus said:
Rob Hickman is apparently working on a "repeater" screen to show info from AFS3400/3500 in the back seat. It this becomes available I'll get one for my -8 - this plus a hand held GPS and good communication should permit adequate rear seat monitoring with the right examiner (I think). What do others think about this? Bill
Click to expand...

Bill,

It's out now. When you stop by next week I'll give you the details. Your panel looks great!!

paul
 
Grey area...

Bill Dicus said:
If you have two totally independent EFIS's and the primary is failed, can flight continue on the second EFIS? My setup is AFS3400 and DynonD10A, both with batteries and free of interconnects. Seems legit to me. Bill
Click to expand...

The reason I quoted the Practical Test Standards in my last post was to show how vague the FAA is on this subject. In the "old days" with steam gauges it was simple, on a checkride you would have to show that you could fly with the most basic (and reliable) instruments. A complete gyro loss was part of the drill. With a little practice "needle ball and airspeed" works fine.

Bear in mind that the final decision to even give the checkride lies with the designee or the FAA inspector. The configuration of the airplane should be negotiated before the checkride. The catch is that if you have full backup instruments you will probably get to display your skills at flying them. If you don't have backups, the inspector may refuse to use the airplane for the checkride.

Since this thread started I have ask two designees if they would give a me a checkride of any kind in my RV8. They both declined, stating that "they couldn't see what was going on."

John Clark ATP, CFI
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
Paul: Incredible I missed your post until today! Do you have details of size, cost and cabling required? Thanks. Bill
 
John: Thanks for your experience. I'm not sure I'd like to give a check ride from the back of an -8 (the only seat I've flown from). Bill
 
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