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60Bubba

Member
So as a military pilot, my aircraft has a GPS about as advanced (in display and function) as Pong, for those of you who remember it. Now that I'm flying GA again, I'm interested in getting a tool to help increase my SA when I fly rental aircraft, many of which have just VOR/ILS.

Specifically, I'd like a GPS with VFR sectionals, IFR low enroute, and a moving map, all with a nice (greater than 5") display. Any other features such as weather and fuel cost are just bonuses. Since this will be used in rentals, portability is a must.

To stay under $1,000, it seems my best options are the iPad with ForeFlight HD, and the iFly 700. I don't need autopilot connectivity at this point, so on paper, the two seem pretty evenly matched. I know we've had some beta testers for the iFly on this site, but I'm wondering if anyone has seen/used the two side by side?

According to the ForeFlight folks, they feel the GPS in the iPad 3G isn't up to the task when it comes to accuracy and ability to maintain signal lock, though they have a video of it at 10,000+ feet with an accuracy of 5-10M. This is part of the reason they aren't georeferencing the approach plates, though they are advertising two add on iPad external GPS modules that may increase accuracy and reliability for future software releases.

I'm really unsure as to how to proceed, and I'm looking for input. Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Cheers,
Case
 
I just finished comparing the two. I ended up with an IPAD. I really like the IFlyGPS, but for about $400 more you can get a device that does all that and more (like hanging around VAF).

Now, our situation is a bit different. I have the Garmin 510 and Skyview GPS's and the IPAD is really just for flight planning, charts, plates and passenger entertainment. I have only used it on one flight and didn't have it mounted. There are other threads that speak to it's accuracy and usefulness as a GPS.

If I had nothing, I'd go with the IFLYGPS for starters (if not having XM is not an issue). Then add the IPAD for the other stuff it can do.
 
Once you add the GPS dongle that Foreflite recommends then the iPad works really well. That dongle from Bad Elf is VERY easy to use and really opens up the capabilities of the iPad. I like it so well that I have bought three of them.....one for me, one for Xmas for a friend, one for my son-in-law for Xmas.....:p
One thing that I have added is a Bluetooth module from Verizon called a "MiFi". It allows the iPad to access via WiFi the 3G network of Verizon. It's much better coverage in the air than ATT at least around my area. Using it is easy to keep updating the weather from Foreflite while in the air. I sure wish that this stuff was available 25 years ago when I was doing a lot of long haul IFR. I always worried about the weather just over the horizon.
 
IPad vs IFly700

The IFly700 has NO internal battery. While it's cheaper than the IPad, you have to have an external battery pack, which, according to their website, is on backorder.
The IPad is huge in comparison and there are more than one software options.
I have WingX on my iphone and it works great. The Wing X Pro 7 is available for IPad at $99 plus $99 every year thereafter to keep it updated. There is a software option when using Pro 7 that costs another $99 that georeferences you on approach plates, Seattle something.....
As an EAA tester, I have Foreflight on my Iphone for free but haven't looked in to the Foreflight Mobile. The basic Foreflight doesn't have near as many features as Wing X.
Good luck with your decision.
 
The IPAD obviously was not built with aviation in mind and it has its limitation like shutting down if it gets overheated but the possibilities and capabilities of IPAD is far more then most. I have been using IPAD and ForeFlight for a few months now and have been extremely happy with it. The GPS actually has worked really well for me, but I am not relaying on it for navigation or specially approaches. I like the added features that they keep adding to the software like the fuel prices, etc in the recent release. I use MyWI program on my IPHONE to tether to access internet, so no need for additional data plan for IPAD or a MiFi device to get connected to internet.
 
Require a data plan?

If you are using the GPS functionality while in the air - does it require you to be on a phone data plan for access? I know with the GPS function on my daughters IPhone while she has the app running it is accessing the Internet which is hitting her data plan allotment. I was shocked when I looked at her usage when she had the GPS running on her drive back from college one day for the 2 hours she was on the road. This is in reference to using an iPad with the ForeFlight app.
 
MyWi & IPad

[QUOTE I use MyWI program on my IPHONE to tether to access internet, so no need for additional data plan for IPAD or a MiFi device to get connected to internet.[/QUOTE]

Bavafa, What is "MyWi"? Is it an app or is that internet tethering? I'm looking at an IPad and using Wing X Pro 7 or Skycharts Pro. Wing X Pro 7 functions great as a moving map gps without a data plan, at least that's what I'm told but Skycharts Pro needs an internet connection to download the sectionals and other maps to keep it updated.
Tethering to an existing device, something I haven't a clue how to do, would make both apps work.
 
iPad too large

I found the iPad way to cumbersome in the RV two seaters (8 & 7) so I use the iFly 700 which is terrific for what I do. I have the remote battery hooked to the aux. power plug and the iFly hooked to the battery -- works great. I tried the iPad in the -10 I fly and with the right mount on the tunnel, it was ok. But for the -10, I use the Flight Cheetah 210 and would not trade it for the iPad (for inflight use!)
 
Fearless said:
If you are using the GPS functionality while in the air - does it require you to be on a phone data plan for access? I know with the GPS function on my daughters IPhone while she has the app running it is accessing the Internet which is hitting her data plan allotment. I was shocked when I looked at her usage when she had the GPS running on her drive back from college one day for the 2 hours she was on the road. This is in reference to using an iPad with the ForeFlight app.
Click to expand...

NO. A dataplan is NOT required in order to use the GPS. A GPS is only included in the 3G unit however, not the WiFi only unit.

The reason the Internet usage is high in you example is because the Maps application does not cache any maps locally on the unit and as you move grabs the next map via the data connection. All the aviation apps cache the maps (once you pay) so that a data connection is not required in order for it to be functional. What is not cached and is retrieved when a data connection becomes available is weather, NOTAMS, etc.
 
Thanks to all for the responses, it seems I have hit on a popular subject. Looks like the iPad has a slight advantage in numbers. I'd love to support the Adventure Air folks and the iFly 700, but the iPad has a lot of other functionality that make it much easier to justify the purchase at this point. I can definitely see the large size as being a hindrance, but I will usually have a co-pilot/GPS holder, so that shouldn't be too much trouble.

Actually, my wife has loved moving map GPS since we had one on our sailboat. She seems to think it's a video game. I had to remind her to look up when she was at the helm to keep from running us into another boat. I suspect this will be as much for her entertainment as anything. Another reason to go with the iPad. I have the wifi hotspot plan on my DroidX, so I think I'll be able to get realtime Wx on the iPad anywhere I can get a signal in SoCal.
 
RONSIM said:
I found the iPad way to cumbersome in the RV two seaters (8 & 7) so I use the iFly 700 which is terrific for what I do. I have the remote battery hooked to the aux. power plug and the iFly hooked to the battery -- works great. I tried the iPad in the -10 I fly and with the right mount on the tunnel, it was ok. But for the -10, I use the Flight Cheetah 210 and would not trade it for the iPad (for inflight use!)
Click to expand...

I would agree that it would be a bit cumbersome in an RV-8 front seat and might be tight in a two seat RV but should be fine in a -10.

IMG_0046_654.jpg
 
60Bubba said:
Thanks to all for the responses, it seems I have hit on a popular subject. Looks like the iPad has a slight advantage in numbers. I'd love to support the Adventure Air folks and the iFly 700, but the iPad has a lot of other functionality that make it much easier to justify the purchase at this point. I can definitely see the large size as being a hindrance, but I will usually have a co-pilot/GPS holder, so that shouldn't be too much trouble.
Click to expand...

If this will often be your only GPS on board, I would go as far as to say it would be a mistake to use the iPad WITHOUT the external GPS. My iPhone with Foreflight loses GPS connectivity on a regular basis in my plane. Not a problem since I have both a Garmin 430 and 396, but it would be more than a bit of a nuisance if I were actually expecting the iPhone to perform real time tracking.

I've read very high praise of the new external GPS, but if you are going to go the iPad route, plan to purchase the external GPS at the same time ... do not consider it optional unless you consider GPS connectivity also optional.
 
Using MyWi to connect to internet

mrreddick said:
[Bavafa, What is "MyWi"? Is it an app or is that internet tethering? I'm looking at an IPad and using Wing X Pro 7 or Skycharts Pro. Wing X Pro 7 functions great as a moving map gps without a data plan, at least that's what I'm told but Skycharts Pro needs an internet connection to download the sectionals and other maps to keep it updated.
Tethering to an existing device, something I haven't a clue how to do, would make both apps work.
Click to expand...

Mike,
You will need internet connection for downloading the data charts and other info but I do that only via the WiFi connection at home and not thru data plan. Once you download the charts, then you have them in the memory till the next month to get the updated charts.

MyWi is an application (really inexpensive) that you can install on your IPHONE and once turned on, your IPHONE becomes a WiFi wireless hub and you can connect any wireless device to it, much like at home. So, any laptop or your IPAD can connect to your IPHONE to gain access to the internet.

I use my MyWi when I have traveled to a destination and hours later I want to get an update on all weather, MEATAR, TAF, etc for my next leg. Once downloads the weather then I disconnect it and all the info now is cached and ready to use.

Hope this helps.
 
sunlight?

Those who have used the iPad in flight, how's the readability in sunlight? I tried an iPad in direct sunlight last summer (not in an airplane) and found it nearly impossible to see. Could be that the brightness needed adjusting though?
 
iflyforfun said:
If this will often be your only GPS on board, I would go as far as to say it would be a mistake to use the iPad WITHOUT the external GPS. My iPhone with Foreflight loses GPS connectivity on a regular basis in my plane. Not a problem since I have both a Garmin 430 and 396, but it would be more than a bit of a nuisance if I were actually expecting the iPhone to perform real time tracking.

I've read very high praise of the new external GPS, but if you are going to go the iPad route, plan to purchase the external GPS at the same time ... do not consider it optional unless you consider GPS connectivity also optional.
Click to expand...

Are you referring to the plug in "Bad Elf" GPS, or the Bluetooth model? It seems the plug in would be more stable, as it is obviously connected directly to the iPad, but the Bluetooth module would give you the option of putting the GPS antenna up on top of the glare shield, etc., to help improve reception, especially when used in a high wing aircraft. My only concern would be dropping the Bluetooth connection between the iPad and GPS could be as problematic as the iPad itself losing GPS lock.

Hmm...decisions, decisions.
 
IPad in flight

"Bavafa - MyWi is an application (really inexpensive) that you can install on your IPHONE and once turned on, your IPHONE becomes a WiFi wireless hub and you can connect any wireless device to it, much like at home. So, any laptop or your IPAD can connect to your IPHONE to gain access to the internet."

I searched for MyWi and it didn't come up on my Iphone, sounds like it's what I need if I go with the IPad.

Another post said that they constantly lose GPS connectivity in flight. I have traveled all over Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Arkansas and others and have never lost the GPS signal on my Iphone. "No Service" has appeared but contrary to what many think on this forum, that does not mean your GPS just quit. The little airplane keeps moving on Skycharts or Wing X for me. It wouldn't do that if I had no GPS reception. If the GPS in the IPad is as good as the IPhone, then it will serve me fine!

Thanks for all the info.
 
mrreddick said:
"Bavafa - MyWi is an application (really inexpensive) that you can install on your IPHONE and once turned on, your IPHONE becomes a WiFi wireless hub and you can connect any wireless device to it, much like at home. So, any laptop or your IPAD can connect to your IPHONE to gain access to the internet."

I searched for MyWi and it didn't come up on my Iphone, sounds like it's what I need if I go with the IPad.

Another post said that they constantly lose GPS connectivity in flight. I have traveled all over Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Arkansas and others and have never lost the GPS signal on my Iphone. "No Service" has appeared but contrary to what many think on this forum, that does not mean your GPS just quit. The little airplane keeps moving on Skycharts or Wing X for me. It wouldn't do that if I had no GPS reception. If the GPS in the IPad is as good as the IPhone, then it will serve me fine!

Thanks for all the info.
Click to expand...

Mike,
Here is a link to MyWi 4.0, http://www.intelliborn.com/mywi.html
you will need to jail break your phone though but that is also very easy and with no issue at all. Only do not upgrade to 4.2 on your IPHONE as it can not be jailbroken.
As for the built-in GPS goes, some people have complained about it, but my usage of it has been really positive. I flew from CA to GA and back and had zero issue with the GPS and I was flying a good portion of it at 14.5K
I usually get a lock on the built-in GPS within seconds and in one minute it goes to 5M accuracy which is the best. But I also have a bluetooth GPS that brings it to 1M accuracy. Again, if you jailbreak your IPHONE then you can use BTSTACK ($5) to use any bluetooth GPS.

Feel free to e-mail me if you have more or specific questions.
 
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I've had my iFly 700 for about six months and I love it more than my AirMap or AV8OR. It's simple and they're constantly adding new features. You don't have to worry about the iFly overheating and shutting down like the iPad. I'll take a dedicated aviation GPS over a multimedia device when it comes to safety. Plus, I just pay one data subscription and don't have to deal with apps or multiple data subscriptions. If everything is at once place, they can't pass you off to a third party app if your having problems. I love Apple, but anybody ever tried to get them to support their device regarding a third party app issue. Good luck. I'll stick with my iFly 700.
 
ifly 700 for me

I too love my ifly 700. Having current sectionals, low ifr charts, and approach plates at my fingertips while flying single pilot IFR or VFR is a huge help and having a reliable battery powered back up GPS to my 430 is awesome. Updating the software and charts and plates is a breeze, and you only have to update the ones you want, so that sectional to Oshkosh is a once a year update. The ipad may do more non aviation related stuff, but it sounds like the GPS capability of the ipad is a compromise. No experience with the aviation side of the ipad, but the in flight experience of the ifly 700 is excellent. Very easy to use right out of the box. The ifly GPS picks up a good signal inside my house, or inside my hangar. Better than my 430.
 
IPad in flight

I have used my IPad 3G on several flights now. RAM has a great cradle and ball mount for it for around $40 right to your door. I've used SkyCharts Pro and Foreflight Mobile HD to compare and both are excellant. When you look at the cost of each, SkyCharts Pro is a real winner. The AFD in Foreflight is easier to read but the SC Pro version is readable and the plates and airport diagrams are available on both.
Sunlight does have an effect. With screen full bright and my Koger shade up in my RV it is still easily readable. In all flights so far I have NEVER lost the GPS signal, even on a high speed low level river run with numerous yanks and banks. Reviewed it on TrackLog when we got home and every little turn was recorded exactly as it happened, so, no external gps device needed!
ps: have a Lowrance 2000C with power & data cord, antenna, etc. going away really cheap:)
 
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For those flying with the iFly 700 are you privy to any updates on when the geo-referenced approach plates will be available? Thanks!
 
iPad 3G & SkyChartsPro

mrreddick said:
I have used my IPad 3G on several flights now. RAM has a great cradle and ball mount for it for around $40 right to your door. I've used SkyCharts Pro and Foreflight Mobile HD to compare and both are excellant. When you look at the cost of each, SkyCharts Pro is a real winner. The AFD in Foreflight is easier to read but the SC Pro version is readable and the plates and airport diagrams are available on both.
Sunlight does have an effect. With screen full bright and my Koger shade up in my RV it is still easily readable. In all flights so far I have NEVER lost the GPS signal, even on a high speed low level river run with numerous yanks and banks. Reviewed it on TrackLog when we got home and every little turn was recorded exactly as it happened, so, no external gps device needed!
ps: have a Lowrance 2000C with power & data cord, antenna, etc. going away really cheap:)
Click to expand...

I'm finding the iPad 3G and SkyChartsPro to be extremely reliable and accurate. The iPad GPS has been, for me, as accurate as the 430, and it's much more user-friendly. SkyCharts shows G/S,DTRK, ETE, etc virtually identical to the 430. The only catch I've found with the iPad is it's propensity to overheat IF you have the brightness full up, and the iPad is laying in full sunlight. Even in that case, which happened to me only the first time I used the setup, required about an hour before it overheated.

To each his own, but this combo works really great for me.
 
Walter at iFly700 has announced a new v5.0 coming in the next few weeks. It will have NMEA autopilot compatibility.
 
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