frankh

frankh

Well Known Member
Yup the left the master on from when I last flew a week ago! This is the second time. I have next week off and will be making an audible warning system..Namely a canopy switch and Radio Shack buzzer.

Interestingly I hooked up the battery charger junior and it would not charge...Zero output. It seems the charger has to see some back EMF to switch itself on.

Left it overnight and still nothing today.

For grins I today hooked up a small test battery in parallel to the Odyssey and then the charger to this small batt.

When I left the small battery was stuffing just under 1 amp into the Odyssey and the charger was cranking for all it was worth to keep the battery volts up.

I am hoping this will work..I'll go back this evening and see how things are progressing.

Frank
 
Suggest that you leave your strobes on at all times. Makes it really obvious that your master is still on...
 
Ahh yes..well next week is annual condition inspection...I will be making the buzzer/canopy switch warning deal at that time..I already have the parts.

Frank
 
ANNOYING

mculver said:
Suggest that you leave your strobes on at all times. Makes it really obvious that your master is still on...
Click to expand...

Strobes on on the ramp are just annoying.. especially at night when they kill everyone's night vision.

Perhaps, a checklist actually used would fix the problem once and for all..
 
mculver said:
Suggest that you leave your strobes on at all times. Makes it really obvious that your master is still on...
Click to expand...

That tip has saved me more than a few times from having a dead battery. Pretty hard to leave the hanger not knowing the strobes are on. I shut them off after I leave he runway and turn them back on at shut down.
 
Geico266 said:
That tip has saved me more than a few times from having a dead battery. Pretty hard to leave the hanger not knowing the strobes are on. I shut them off after I leave he runway and turn them back on at shut down.
Click to expand...

Uh........if I could remember to turn strobes back on at shut down I could probably remember to turn the master off...................

The Radio Shack thingie screaming at you is hard to miss. :D I bought a switch for a canopy-open override but so far have found no reason to install it.
 
Doesn't work in bright sunlight..I mean all the Dynon screens are lit up but clearly I even missed those twice!

Frank
 
Sam Buchanan said:
Uh........if I could remember to turn strobes back on at shut down I could probably remember to turn the master off...................

The Radio Shack thingie screaming at you is hard to miss. :D I bought a switch for a canopy-open override but so far have found no reason to install it.
Click to expand...

Point taken, but a large number of times on Experimentals a pilot leaves the master on in the hanger after maintenance. EFIS stuff; adding fuel, checking engine times, adjusting "K" factors, setting engine parameters, ect. This is done while the plane is in the hanger and they forget to shut it off the master after they are done. Flipping the tail strobe on does take a checklist, or mental note, but the screaming siren just doesn't appeal to me more than a tail strobe only flashing. To each his own.
 
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1. checklist
2. after shuting down run your hand down all the toggle switches and make sure they're all in the off position.
3. If you use a key switch for ignition, pull the key and place it on the glare shield so you KNOW the mags are grounded. If not, make sure the toggle switches are in the "OFF" position.

If you have a problem leaving the master on, you may have a problem remembering to turn the ignition off. Hot magnetos are a way more serious problem than a dead battery. Horns and lights and strobes may prevent the dead battery but won't prevent an accidental engine start and serious injury.

Get a procedure and follow it and be disciplined.

And yes, I've left a master on once and the ignition on once after shut down. Got lucky both times and don't intend to test my luck a second time.
 
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master on

Batterystuff.com PC 680 $115.00 with FREE shipping.
Tad Sargent
TeamRV
Insert all the fancy options I installed on the plane or will in the near future
 
check list discipline

Using a check list EVERY TIME can save your life. If you just can't use a written check list at least use a flow pattern and do each task the same way every time. Yes this is supposed to be just for fun, but mental discipline is required unless you are willing to trust you and your friends lives to luck. Leaving the cockpit with a switch in the wrong place after MX is understandable. After one flight it would be irritating, the second time after a flight should cause careful introspection.
 
The suggestions about flow control, checklists, mental aids, etc, etc, are certainly valid and my combination of those methods worked flawlessly for me for ten years and 980 hrs in the RV-6.

Until.....the last time I taxiied the plane back to the hangar after a show-n-tell on the ramp instead of returning from a flight. The normal routine was interrupted, I may have been in a little more of a hurry than usual, and my 56-year-old brain slipped a cog.

Point being that in spite of all the pontificating about flow control, checklists, mental aids, etc, etc, that I have spouted over the years.......I screwed up and left the master on. The audible alarm was easily added to the big oil pressure light that I somehow missed (along with the EFIS glaring at me) so I now have a reminder to turn off the master that can't be overridden. Amazingly, the 3 1/2 year-old PC680 came back after an overnight 2-amp charge in spite of being drained for ten days.

The neurons ain't getting any younger, so in spite of how rinky-dink the alarm may sound, if it prevents the trashing of a battery or personal harm, it's a good thing. :)
 
Wel charging overnight didn't do anything..the battery was too drained to turn the smart charger on...So I bootstrapped the small maintenance battery across the terminals and the charger fired right up...After 4 hours it had the main battery up to 10 volts.

I am hopeful..:)

Frank
 
How about a sign hanging from the steering wheel of your vehicle or the inside of the mandoor of the hangar.
1) Hangar door closed/locked?
2) Aircraft chocked/parking brake on?
3) MASTER SWITCH OFF?
4) Magneto/Ignition key in pocket?
5) Flight plan closed?


Howie
 
When I would leave the water overflowing a cattle tank, the old man I worked for told me to put a rock in my pocket when I turned it on. Put a rock by the hangar door, in your pocket or maybe just a rubber band on the canopy handle when you fire up. I bet you don't do it again.
 
Panel warning light

Maybe this would help you. If you have a Van's Hobbs meter you probably already have this.

From Van's catalog: http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1258455059-52-60&browse=ei&product=isspro-hour

"Optional oil pressure switch can be wired to run Hour Meter and illuminate a panel light if the oil pressure drops below 15 psi. Besides being a monitor should you loose oil pressure, this effectively works as a warning to turn the Master Switch off when the engine shuts down provided a large enough red light is mounted on the panel."
 
That Odyssey should come back. My Odyssey charger would kick it back to a de-sulphate mode, what ever that it is, for up 14 hours and then charge it and probably bring it back. The Odyssey battery normally will sustain 100's of deep cycles.

With regard to the master switch....an auto seat belt warning switch under your seat would turn it off when you left the airplane. :)
 
You need a big charger!

Frank,

It will not work with a small charger! You need a heavy charger to kick that little battery?s @$, to get it going again.

My battery drained over several months (Dynon keep alive, elt) and was down to below 10 V. My 10 Amp charger could not charge it! The 60 Amp charger from work did the trick. After 2 hours it was back at 12,9 V.

Monitor the Voltage with a Digital multimeter and make sure it does not go over the max allowable (I believe it is 14,7 V, but check the Odyssy website to be sure). You need a charger that you can set at different charging capacities, because after several minutes the voltage will go up and you will need to turn the charger to a lower setting.

Good luck

Regards, Tonny.
 
JCFL said:
Maybe this would help you. If you have a Van's Hobbs meter you probably already have this.

From Van's catalog: http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1258455059-52-60&browse=ei&product=isspro-hour

"Optional oil pressure switch can be wired to run Hour Meter and illuminate a panel light if the oil pressure drops below 15 psi. Besides being a monitor should you loose oil pressure, this effectively works as a warning to turn the Master Switch off when the engine shuts down provided a large enough red light is mounted on the panel."
Click to expand...

Thanks! I was about to say the same sort of thing.

An idea that I saw a while back (which I plan to steal later), is to install a 'LOW OIL PRESSURE' warning light. While it is not audible, it will also serve as Master Switch 'ON' light with the engine shut 'OFF' light.

And hopefully, its use will prevent me from leaving the Master Switch 'ON' after aircraft shutdown.
 
Audio is good, I suppose. My panel already has an audio warning in the avionics fan; if that is on then I know my master is on. Haven't forgotten yet. I'm right with Sam about how checklists can sometimes fail, though. Twice I've discovered that I've gotten interrupted and failed to turn the alternator on; both times I caught it in the air as my radios got weird. My constant mantra is "What have I forgotten?"; the reply comes, "I can't remember..." ;)
 
Crossbow said:
Thanks! I was about to say the same sort of thing.

An idea that I saw a while back (which I plan to steal later), is to install a 'LOW OIL PRESSURE' warning light. While it is not audible, it will also serve as Master Switch 'ON' light with the engine shut 'OFF' light.

And hopefully, its use will prevent me from leaving the Master Switch 'ON' after aircraft shutdown.
Click to expand...

See earlier post in this thread:

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=378068&postcount=16

:)
 
BRIGHT LIGHT

In the 80's when I had my Cessna I left the master switch on several times, and ran the battery down. When I built my first RV I put the brightest red light I could find right in front of me on the panel. It's hooked to the oil pressure. When I built my 2nd RV I did the same thing. That's over 2000 hours in RV's and never a dead battery.
Steve Barnes The Builders Coach
 
mculver said:
Suggest that you leave your strobes on at all times. Makes it really obvious that your master is still on...
Click to expand...
I did something a bit similar in concept. If the master is inadvertantly left on...the digital OAT reading remains illuminated. Because of where I mounted it (prior to glass instrumentation) it is easy to see from outside the airplane.

17u8p4.jpg
 
Crossbow said:
Sam:

Yes, you are quite correct! Checklists are important.

However, a LOW OIL PRESSURE and/or a ALTERNATOR warning light(s) are important as well. And if there is a way for them to be used for another purpose, then that is great as well.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

That is why I have the low oil pressure light, aka the "Turn off the Master You Idiot Light. ;)

(Guess my linked post wasn't clear enough...)
 
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Yep!

Howie said:
How about a sign hanging from the steering wheel of your vehicle or the inside of the mandoor of the hangar.
1) Hangar door closed/locked?
2) Aircraft chocked/parking brake on?
3) MASTER SWITCH OFF?
4) Magneto/Ignition key in pocket?
5) Flight plan closed?


Howie
Click to expand...

1) Mine is always locked, just like a hotel room door. Fortunately, unlike a certain hotel occurrence, I have not had to go to the airport manager while clad only in my BVD's for a key!

2) I would not leave the plane with the brake set.

3) YES!!! Posted on the hangar man door in 4" red letters! This is what I have.
In 30+ years of flying, I can only remember leaving the switch on twice (not bragging, just lucky). The last was when I was taking my bride for her first ride in the RV after we bought it. So, she got her first dual in holding the brakes while I gave it a manual override start.

4) Key in pocket?? Not with this 50 y/o addled brain! I got into the habit of hanging them from the artificial horizon, but you guys with all the EFIS are at a disadvantage on this one! I have spare keys for my Pacer and RV in my tool box and vehicles, and my wife has one in her wallet in case we are on the road.

As the originator of this thread stated, if you can miss the EFIS powered up, lights are not going to help for sure. I also agree that strobes are for takeoff to landing use only!
 
Now you know why I don't have a key for the airplane either..An insurance policy and push to start is my solution to losing the keys..:)

Frank
 
So the battery appeared to be recovering last night under the charge of the mini smart charger..

Volts were up to 13, setlled just under 12V with charger removed..Ran all lights, pitot heat etc for 5 mins and say a 0.4V drop over that time.

So its not completely charged after 30 hours but I think its getting close.

Hopefully today it will be ready to go.

Frank
 
Finally, my daughter and I headed to the airport for a trip in my plane. She hasn't flown in it yet and works nearly everyday and school and sports and 17 going on 27. Can you imagine how upset I was to find that the master switch had been left on for several days. I have it on a charger but the day is shot. Absolute bummer!
 
apkp777 said:
Finally, my daughter and I headed to the airport for a trip in my plane. She hasn't flown in it yet and works nearly everyday and school and sports and 17 going on 27. Can you imagine how upset I was to find that the master switch had been left on for several days. I have it on a charger but the day is shot. Absolute bummer!
Click to expand...

I now have a habit of looking through the nearly closed canopy, to make sure the master is off. I'll even do it twice, because I don't always trust myself...

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
L.Adamson said:
I now have a habit of looking through the nearly closed canopy, to make sure the master is off. I'll even do it twice, because I don't always trust myself...

L.Adamson --- RV6A
Click to expand...

Yep, I think I am going to make a poster to put on the hangar door that simply says MASTER!
 
Foolproof

If someone comes up with a foolproof way, I'll come up with a better fool (most likely me).

;)
 
I can't tell you how many times I have left the airport and turned around to check the master, only to find it off.

The week after giving a bunch of YE flights I returned to the plane to find the overhead light on, which is on the "always hot" buss. That was a bummer.

Then there was that time two weeks ago when I left on. Yep, the plane is in my basment and I still managed to leave the darn master on.
 
I am OC about the master. Actually many things but that is another issue.

When I went to the Caymans I got everything out that I wanted, secured the plane, taped all around the canopy in the event of rain and must have had something over the canopy..I just don't remember what. I think I had a towel over the instrument panel...yea...that is it.

Then I start to walk away and obsessive compulsive (OC) kicks in and I wonder about the master.

I can't see the master because of the towel so I have to remove all the tape to get in and check the master switch, then reapply the tape.

I probably had three sets of keys on that trip.
 
Wireless checklist

Frank, since many of us have electronic checklists, the last item to be checked on shut down would be the master switch.
Kind of hard to do with the master still on.
Here is where my wireless checklist comes in.
It consists of a piece of paper with words on it. No hands no wires.:p

Is this why they don't send Donkeys to college?
..........Nobody likes a smart A.....
 
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