Sodering Connections

I used regular electrical soder and a small propane torch. Put sodering paste on the connections and add the soder. It will take quite a bit compared to small wires but I have not had any connection problems in 250 hours of flight.

Jim Knight
Burlington Iowa
RV-6
 
I've made dozens of battery cables by soldering and have never had a problem.
I have a 1000 watt soldering iron I've had for over 30 years that does the job. Cables I make are either #2 or #4 wire. Terminals are either from Aircraft Spruce or an electrical supply house.
I use acid core solder and a little liquid soldering acid.
I grip the iron by it's wooden handle in a vise with the iron angled up about
45'. Let the iron get hot, put the wire in the terminal with a little acid, tin the tip with some solder for better contact, lay the terminal across the tip, and let the wire and terminal melt the solder when they are hot enough. Keep feeding in solder till full. The hot terminal will suck the solder in.
Wipe excess off quickly with a clean rag..and done.
When cool, put some heat shrink on. Have never had a problem with corrosion or poor contact. No open flame, burned insulation, or running out of propane to worry about either.
Hope this helps
Jack
 
Why?

PCHunt said:
Everything I've ever read stated that acid core solder was a real no-no.:confused: :eek:
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Why? Corrosion? Fatigue? I think it could be considered the belt and suspender method, but with large dia. battery cables fatigue is not usually an issue like small gauge (larger #) wires where solder can wick down the wire & causes a solid mass that is not flexible.. No dog in the fight just wondering, I'm 50/50 on soldering the battery cable lugs.
 
I'm no expert, but I think the problem is corrosion. Need some expert to jump in here and get me off the hot-spot! :eek:
 
Corrosion

PCHunt said:
I'm no expert, but I think the problem is corrosion. Need some expert to jump in here and get me off the hot-spot! :eek:
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Correct on the corrosion....

This solder manufacturer's link gives details on different types of solder...

http://www.canfieldmetals.com/core_solder.htm

This is the key sentence...

Please be advised that acid core solder is NOT recommended for electrical or electronic soldering applications due to the corrosive nature of the residue.

gil A
 
My first job (1959) was operating the projectors at a drive-in theater. One of the first things I had to do was to rewire the entire theater because it had been wired with acid core solder. When you took the top off the speaker post, you were greeted by a glob of green corrosion.
Acid core solder should never be seen in an electronics shop!
As far as solder vs. crimp, mil-spec calls for "crimp only". The main reason is that the solder creeps up the wire causing a hard point. This causes the wire to break due to vibration. On wires the size of battery cables, this is generally not a problem. Just make sure they are "strain relieved".
 
Solder is OK...

Mel said:
.....
As far as solder vs. crimp, mil-spec calls for "crimp only". The main reason is that the solder creeps up the wire causing a hard point. This causes the wire to break due to vibration. On wires the size of battery cables, this is generally not a problem. Just make sure they are "strain relieved".
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Not quite so fast Mel....:)

Mil-Specs do allow solder... even Martin Marrietta still has a training class to teach hand soldering to MIL-S-4574E

http://www.dtae.org/teched/standards/courses/elc160.html

While crimping might be the preferred production method... the calibration of people and crimping equipment is quite extensive...
A bad crimp may be hard to detect, but visual inspection of solder joints is relatively easy.
And yes, support is needed at the end of the solder wicking, but a well shrunk piece of heat shrink and proper support of wire bundles does the trick.

I personally know of lots of military and space hardware I have worked with that is soldered together and is still operating.... at least until the EU and Japan took lead out of the solder...:)

ADDED

NASA has an interesting workmanship page on soldering terminals... I guess they still approve of soldered joints....:)

http://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2 books/links/sections/613 Terminals.html

gil A - used to be a qualified solderer....
 
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Solder for electronics

Sure! In fact most all solder for electronics is Rosin Core. Radio Shack, and many other suppliers have it.
 
IMHO, you should crimp, not solder. If you solder, try to minimize how much solder wicks down the wire. Be sure the wire is fully supported at least through the length that's soldered, as the soldered part will be inflexible and more succeptible to vibration damage. And, as others have said, make sure you use rosin core solder when you solder anything electrical.

BUT - You don't need to buy an expensive crimper to crimp big cables. You already own the most expensive part of a big crimper; your rivet squeezer. See my tools page for how it's done and the results:

http://www.meyette.us/tools.htm#crimper
 
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all my books

say no acid core for wires and the like. rosin core only. it is a test question BTW
 
Solder and heat shrink is OK with NASA

brian said:
IMHO, you should crimp, not solder. If you solder, try to minimize how much solder wicks down the wire. Be sure the wire is fully supported at least through the length that's soldered, as the soldered part will be inflexible and more succeptible to vibration damage. .......
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This isn't a big deal... you can read the NASA specifications on the link I posted above...

http://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2 books/links/sections/613 Terminals.html

Second "block" of pictures down....

GENERAL REQUIREMENTS

INSULATION SLEEVING

Sleeving shall completely cover and fit snugly around the terminal and the wire insulation and overlap the wire insulation by a minimum of 5 mm (0.20 in.), or two (2) insulated wire diameters, whichever is larger.

NASA-STD-8739.3 [9.8]

It really is no big deal to add the heat shrink tubing - for our size wires (excepting the big battery cables) a minimum of 0.2 inches of shrink over the wire portion is easy to do.....:)

I've seen more bad crimps than bad solder joints on homebuilts.... even from engineers who should have known better...:)

How many homebuilders regularly test their crimps?

gil A
 
brian said:
BUT - You don't need to buy an expensive crimper to crimp big cables. You already own the most expensive part of a big crimper; your rivet squeezer. See my tools page for how it's done and the results:

http://brian76.mystarband.net/tools.htm#crimper
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I took Brian's advice and made my own crimper dies this morning. Boy, what a great tip!! I tried the soldering and it worked ok, but the crimper kicks *$$. No stiff wires and best of all, it's quick. Thanks a million.
 
Mil-Specs do allow solder... even Martin Marrietta still has a training class to teach hand soldering to MIL-S-4574E
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Ah....Mil-S-4574E......brings back memories to when I was certified to teach mil-spec soldering back in the late 70's......think it was MIL-S-45743 back then (should still have a certificate around somewhere).

The solder "wicking up the wire" deal can be greatly reduced with proper technique. The most common error of operators is to apply waaay too much solder to the joint. A really nice solder joint will still have the wire strands visible under a thin fillet of solder. Any more solder is excessive and not per spec. The proper amount of solder prevents it from running up the wire an unacceptable amount. An untrained operator will think the joint is undersoldered, but that is not the case if the thin fillet is present.

This rule applies regardless of whether working with 22awg or 4awg.
 
mburch said:
That's super awesome. I'd buy a set of those from Avery in a heartbeat. :)

mcb
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I offered the design to Avery for free, but they didn't even acknowledge my email to them about it. A disappointing interaction in an otherwise stellar relationship. I also offered them some suggestions on what I did to improve their squeezer: http://www.meyette.us/Avery.htm
 
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New tool *shrinks* large terminals onto the wire

Check out The Terminal Tool. Its a tool that I have developed and put on the market. This tool actually *shrinks* the wire terminal onto the wire.

NO ugly crimping, indenting or smashing. NO soldering. Shrinks the terminal ferrule like heat-shrink and makes a SUPER tight connection.

http://www.theterminaltool.com

Avery also has them. http://www.averytools.com/p-937-the-terminal-tool.aspx

Thx,

Bill
 
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Bill,

I just got done looking over your website and I think you've really got a nice product there. I'm afraid I've already got all mine crimped, but if they ever come loose I'm definitely buying one of your tools.
 
Bill Wightman said:
Check out The Terminal Tool. Its a tool that I have developed and put on the market. This tool actually *shrinks* the wire terminal onto the wire.
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Funny timing... I just used my Terminal Tool for the first time last night. It worked great!

http://www.rv7blog.com/2007/11/04/fancy-crimper/

There are cheaper ways to put your terminal ends on, but I'm not in this to pinch pennies. :)

mcb (just a satisfied customer)
 
8 ga?

It looks like a good tool. Only thing I see lacking is no 8 ga die
brian

Bill Wightman said:
Check out The Terminal Tool. Its a tool that I have developed and put on the market. This tool actually *shrinks* the wire terminal onto the wire.

NO ugly crimping, indenting or smashing. NO soldering. Shrinks the terminal ferrule like heat-shrink and makes a SUPER tight connection.

http://www.theterminaltool.com

Avery also has them. http://www.averytools.com/p-937-the-terminal-tool.aspx

Thx,

Bill
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Terminal Tool DieSets

Hello Brian,

The Terminal Tool doesn't include a dieset for AWG-8 because there are already a number of good tools out there that can do small size terminals like that. We found that when addressing smaller ferrule sizes, simple AMP style tools work well. Even though we could scale a dieset down to AWG-8, the TT's design has its greatest advantage in larger sizes. We have AWG-0 "One Ott" diesets about half-way through first lot production now. That's used alot in car audio stuff.

I sold my beautiful 200HP RV4 and my PA28-180 to put this tool on the market. I believe it's hands down superior to any "crimper" out there, mainly because the TT doesn't crimp the ferrule.

Rgds,

Bill
IDG, Inc

You can buy the TT5000 Terminal Tool at Avery Tools, or direct through the TT website.
 
Clean after

I crimped and soldered the big battery wires. I use a good flux and a propane torch. Only wick in enough solder to mate the parts. It is easy with practice.

After soldering I soak the soldered product in a jar of denatured alcohol. I also use a stiff brush to assist in cleaning.
 
8ga

I had mentioned the 8 ga because, in my experience, the typical ubiquitous terminal crimpers are for 10 ga and up (the yellow, blue, red terminals). I'd include 8 ga in the "larger" category. While there could be 8 ga crimpers out there, AFAIK 8ga capacity is not included in any standard crimpers I am aware of, without going to "special capacity" crimpers, which is what your tool would be replacing.

Bill Wightman said:
Hello Brian,
The Terminal Tool doesn't include a dieset for AWG-8 because there are already a number of good tools out there that can do small size terminals like that. .
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links

I added a link to your tool on my tools page and vendors page. I hope you do well with selling it; it looks like a good tool.
brian


Bill Wightman said:
Check out The Terminal Tool. Its a tool that I have developed and put on the market. This tool actually *shrinks* the wire terminal onto the wire.
Bill
Click to expand...
 
Instead of spending a lot of money on a good set of crimpers that would handle the larger gages I took a block AL drilled the proper size hole it and then cut in half. Place it in a vise with the wire and connector and squeeze it shut. Works like a charm.
 
Instead of spending a lot of money on a good set of crimpers that would handle the larger gages I took a block AL drilled the proper size hole it and then cut in half. Place it in a vise with the wire and connector and squeeze it shut. Works like a charm.
Click to expand...

Norm, I've tried that. Not exactly a "charm". The terminal ferrule squished out into the gaps between the blocks, and the result was far from pretty. Sounds like an OK idea, but in practice it doesn't work.

Brian - thanks a bunch for adding the TT to your site!! Could you give me the address so I can see what you've posted there? Thanks...

Bill
 
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