D

designerX

Well Known Member
Hello all,

I'm attempting to rivet in the narrowest portion of a rib (this is on Van's the practice kit.) In the first image below the holes are displayed, the second image depicts a back-riveting method I attempted with poor results. Any help would be appreciated.





Thanks in advance,
Stan
 
I've had success with a no-hole yoke on the squeezer. It has one die, and a flat surface as the other die. The flat surface is thin...maybe 1/4". They're pricey, but you'll have plenty of oppotunity to use it on the kit.

Joe
 
Hi Stan!

I remember (man, this was awhile back) putting a nail head in half my yoke and using it as a poor man's version of the no hole yoke Joe mentioned above. Can't remember if it worked or not, but maybe it'll be worth trying. I also remember buying a $7 crowbar from Sears and hacking off one end and grinding down to a point to use as a bucking bar for tight places. I seem to remember that not working very well <g>.

Good luck!
Doug
 
Last edited:
Stan, nice photo, looks like excellent work. Hard to tell from the photo but it appears that you might want to set the rivets just a bit harder.

As for how to set the two rivets, Joe is correct, a no hole yoke.

There are a few more ways to do it, like a back rivet bar etc (can be found in the archives), but my advice is forget them for now. Two years from now, (after you have bought that $125 no hole yoke for other purposes) it will be a cinch to come back and do those.... That's what I did.

Build on and welcome to the club....

Larry
 
The 4" no hole yoke I have doesn't seem to fit.

Thanks for the replies gents. The 4" no hole yoke from Cleaveland Tool doesn't seem to fit this location. Is this particular problem only experienced in the practice kit or did you have to grind down your no hole yokes?

Thx,
Stan
 
No, don't grind your no hole....

Don't grind down the no hole. There are about a dozen rivets in the whole airplane you need an alternate mechanism...the no hole just won't fit. IIRC the top of the rudder was the worst.

Auburntsts above has about the best method.

As someone else said in the thread, the next best alternative is to use a cold chisel on the shop head as a bucking bar. Either way will work, doesn't have to be perfect.
 
I set mine as showen in the pictures at that experemental aero link. Similar to the back rivet method you tried with that flat plate. You need a ridgid bar, I used a 1" x 1" steel bar that I notched one end and polished. I few good wacks with a heavy hammer and its set.
 
I recently finished the practice kit. When I came to those rivets, I just ground down the back side of the "foot" of a bucking bar so it would fit. It only took a minute and seemed to work fine.

My question for you is, how did you get the riveted trailing edge to come out well? I don't think that I was able to get any of those rivets tight. Since I couldn't find any trailing edges like that in my -8 plans, I left it and moved on.
 
Just pop 'em

I'd just use pop rivets in those tight spots. Makes the job a lot quicker, easier, with less damage and mental trauma. I spent way too much time dealing with these on the rudder and elevators and didn't hesitate to use pop rivets on those holes on my flaps or ailerons. Pop 'em and move on!
 
ditto... pop 'em

Stan, I'll second Mike's comment to just pop 'em. When I built the 7A I was determined to not use the pop rivets so I did all of the above in trying to get a small handfull of rivets set. They never did work out that great but by d**n I didn't wuss out and use a pulled rivet in my plane.... no sirree bob :) Just spent lots of time fretting over nothing.

Now building a 10 and instead of beating up the rib or otherwise dinging around on the aluminum trying to get a make shift bucking bar to work, when I run into these spots I pull 'em. Probably won't be a dozen places out of 15,000 rivets but when it makes sense just pull it and keep on keeping on.

Doug - Southern boy who happens to live in the MidWest and can't believe he's thinking --- wow, tomorrow it's really warming up... 30 F
 
Rivets is skinny places

Stan,

I got a no hole squeezer yoke, ground it down on the no hole side to >3/16" and use it all over the place in tight spots. Because it is thin, I only use it for 3/32 and short 1/8" rivets. You will love having it. Good luck. CJ
 
mikehoover said:
I'd just use pop rivets in those tight spots. Makes the job a lot quicker, easier, with less damage and mental trauma. I spent way too much time dealing with these on the rudder and elevators and didn't hesitate to use pop rivets on those holes on my flaps or ailerons. Pop 'em and move on!
Click to expand...

Under advice from guys with their planes in the air, I just used MK319BS pulled rivets in the places where I could not fit my 4" no-hole yoke. I think I used two per side in the top TE of the rudder, and one per side (top and bottom) per elevator in the TE of the elevators, for a total of 8 so far.
 
Used the hammer/bar approach for the practice kit. Will pop 'em in the future.

Thanks again to all that have contributed many helpful ideas. Since this was just the practice kit I tried the hammer/bar approach on two of the remaining rivets which seemed to work. If this would've been an actual part on the plane I would've been very nervous about swinging the hammer and the bar bouncing (It took some strong wacks to set the rivet which may have been due to the short bar I used.) In the future I'll probably take the advice of using pop rivets on the locations that aren't accessible by the 4" no hole yoke. DaX Thanks for the specific pop rivet #s. I'll order a handful next time I place an order.


John G, you asked about riveting the trailing edge and having it come out straight... I'm a noob so it was probably just beginners luck. I started the rivets with the bucking bar and flush set moving from the center of the trailing edge and moved outwards. Once finished I then used the back rivet plate and the flush set to finish each rivet off, once again moving from the center of the edge towards the ends. It did come out nice and straight we'll see what happens when it's no longer 'for practice'. :)

Stan
 
Buy some real -3 blind rivets and use them (I'm not a fan of those oddball -3 rivets Van's sells). I found you potentially do some major cosmetic damage by forcing a solid rivet, when a simple pop rivet will do. Many airplanes are built with only pop rivets, a couple on your plane is fine.
 
Real blind rivet?

N916K said:
Buy some real -3 blind rivets and use them (I'm not a fan of those oddball -3 rivets Van's sells). I found you potentially do some major cosmetic damage by forcing a solid rivet, when a simple pop rivet will do. Many airplanes are built with only pop rivets, a couple on your plane is fine.
Click to expand...

Cam,

I am just finishing the elevators, I used some blind rivets on the rudder, one on the trailing edge of the rudder (both sides) and the most leading rivet inside the horn brace. I am not sure what you mean about "real blind rivet" The blind rivets I used looked OK but I would like to know what other options are available. If you could post the rivet number and a source if they are difficult to find. Thanks in advance.

Cheers
 
Pops at trailing edge

My solution was half and half. On the top of the trailing edges I used solids, but on the bottom I used pops. Once the top TE rivets are set it is VERY difficult to find anything that will fit between the shop head and the bottom rivet shank. So, if anyone gets that close to my TE after it's built, to examine whether or not I used pops or solids all I can say is that they'd better be a judge at a contest-or watch out! Unless of course, they have a blank check in their hands.
Mike H 9A/8A
 
RVG8tor said:
Cam,

I am just finishing the elevators, I used some blind rivets on the rudder, one on the trailing edge of the rudder (both sides) and the most leading rivet inside the horn brace. I am not sure what you mean about "real blind rivet" The blind rivets I used looked OK but I would like to know what other options are available. If you could post the rivet number and a source if they are difficult to find. Thanks in advance.

Cheers
Click to expand...

Van's supplies MK319-BS rivets. They require a slightly larger hole than a -3 rivet. You can get blind rivets that will fit right into a -3 countersunk hole. That way if you come across a need for a blind rivet you don't have to do any extra countersinking and find a larger drill bit. Other than that there is nothing wrong with a MK319BS blind rivet.

I picked up a big bag of them at Oshkosh years ago and I'm not sure what the part number is. Try Spruce, they sell a good replacement for the CS-4 rivets that Van's sells. I believe they are BSC-44. They seem to fit a bit more flush and have a better finish than the CS-4. I believe there is a similar part number for the 3/32 size rivets.
 
N916K said:
Buy some real -3 blind rivets and use them (I'm not a fan of those oddball -3 rivets Van's sells). I found you potentially do some major cosmetic damage by forcing a solid rivet, when a simple pop rivet will do. Many airplanes are built with only pop rivets, a couple on your plane is fine.
Click to expand...

It is my understanding that the blind rivet was originally developed for the Supermarine Spitfire of WWII. I don't think anyone will argue that it was one of the finest aircraft of that era.
 
N916K said:
Van's supplies MK319-BS rivets. They require a slightly larger hole than a -3 rivet. You can get blind rivets that will fit right into a -3 countersunk hole. That way if you come across a need for a blind rivet you don't have to do any extra countersinking and find a larger drill bit. Other than that there is nothing wrong with a MK319BS blind rivet.

I picked up a big bag of them at Oshkosh years ago and I'm not sure what the part number is. Try Spruce, they sell a good replacement for the CS-4 rivets that Van's sells. I believe they are BSC-44. They seem to fit a bit more flush and have a better finish than the CS-4. I believe there is a similar part number for the 3/32 size rivets.
Click to expand...

ccc-32 is the best I have found to be a true 3/32 flush blind rivet.
 
CCC-32 Rivets

Brantel said:
ccc-32 is the best I have found to be a true 3/32 flush blind rivet.
Click to expand...


Have you used these rivets, are they aluminum or stainless steel, I think the ones from ACS are Stainless, any problems with that next to aluminum? Sorry this is late but I am setting the blind rivets in my elevators and want to know if these are OK.

Cheers Mike
 
RVG8tor said:
Have you used these rivets, are they aluminum or stainless steel, I think the ones from ACS are Stainless, any problems with that next to aluminum? Sorry this is late but I am setting the blind rivets in my elevators and want to know if these are OK.

Cheers Mike
Click to expand...

They are stainless. Not sure about long term problems but I dipped mine into primer before setting them when I have used them.
 
Try a Tatco no-hole yoke

Stan,
One option would be a Tatco no-hole yoke on your Tatco or clone. They're about $65.00, or around half of the price of a pneumatic yoke.

Also, a "nibbling" technique of squeezing the rivet works well here. You should be able to get the squeezer flat die over about 1/2 to 2/3 rds. of the rivet's manufactured head and the no-hole yoke just on the other end of the rivet.

Give the squeezer just a little squeeze to just start swelling the rivet, then work the squeezer onto the rivet a little more and squeeze a little more. Make sure that when the rivet starts to swell in the hole that the manufactured head is seated well in the dimple so you don't get a "proud" rivet.

Also, in your second photo, the piece is not sitting flat on the back-rivet plate. If you are back-riveting, the work must be supported and leveled and flat on the plate.
Your work looks great, BTW
 
Something I found interesting and used for the last rivets in the rudder was a piece of an old leaf spring from a car. The ends of this nicely hardened steel are tapered down to about 1/4 thick. With this you can get it in there and use any side to rivet against and its pretty heavy. Of course the chisel gets right in there for those spots even narrower, though not quite heavy enough for those pretty shop heads.

Cant tell ya exactly what this chunk of leaf spring came off of though... I was stuck in traffic in Seattle and saw it by the side of the road so I jumped out and grabbed it for the tool box. Most useful roadside find I've had in a long time! YMMV :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.