M

mmiller604

I'm New Here
Hi All,

I'm trying to decide what kit to build, and I've narrowed it down to either the RV-7 or the Sonex/Waiex. In a perfect world my preference would be the RV, however the main reason I'm considering the Sonex is the fact that it uses pulled rivets and is apparently quieter to build. I don't like the fact that the cabin is only 40" wide, and only holds 40lbs of baggage.

If I order a quick build RV-7 kit (wings & fuse), how much solid riveting is left to do aside from the empennage and the remaining skin panels? This is my main concern with the RV-7 vs the Sonex. I don't want my neighbors to end up hating me!

I know this forum is probably biased towards the RV, but I'd still appreciate any input you might have.

Thanks,
Mike
 
Mike, I'm going to say that 80% of the riveting is done, going with QB. Excluding the emp.
There's lots of riveting required, but you will save, I'm told, about a year of building time.
Regards
 
Thanks, Lorne. In your best guesstimate... how many hours of riveting would you say is required, and would it be long periods of constant riveting or is it spread out over fairly small tasks?

I could probably get away with a half hour of riveting a couple times a week. Is that a realistic target or will I never get the kit completed at that rate?

Thanks,
Mike
 
noise

Riveting noise is really not that loud. If you live in a single family home they won't mind at all. Did all my riveting in the basement, and the family could still watch TV directly above without complaining once. On the second floor could not notice the riveting at all.... now if you are in an apartment, never mind.

Many of the rivets can also be squeezed, and that makes no noise.
 
I just finished my QB 7A last summer. One thing I really didn't understand before I built it, was how little time was spent actually riveting it together.
Below is my best guess on the time I spent riveting on the major skins.

As you can see, it was somewhere around 20 hours out of a 1000+ hour build. I really would not let the noise of 20 hours or riveting spread out over a multi-year build sway you from building what you really want.

Jason



Vertical Stabilizer: 2 hrs
Horizontal Stabilizer: 2 hrs
Elevators: 3 hrs
Rudder: 4 hrs

Wing Bottom Skins: 6 hrs

Turtle Deck (rear fuselage): 2 hrs
Fuselage Top Forward Skin: 2 hrs
 
Amount of time riveting

Most of the time building the kit is not riveting, riveting is 10-20% (less if you count the finishing and engine install) of the time, and 60%-70% of the rivets can be squeezed, so count on 5-10% of the kit time banging rivets.

I'm building a slow build 10, but I would guess less than 100 hours total of actual banging rivets on a quickbuild 7 using squeezers when possible.
 
Thanks guys. I should mention I live in a townhouse with one wall shared with my neighbor, plus I have more neighbors within 15-30 feet in all directions.

I might just have to order a tail kit and see how it goes before pulling the trigger on the QB kit.
 
Not sure of your needs, but compared to a Sonex, why not do an RV12? Absolutely NO banged rivets, very quiet to assemble, and the cockpit is wider than theRV7 you are considering.!
 
mmiller604 said:
Thanks guys. I should mention I live in a townhouse with one wall shared with my neighbor, plus I have more neighbors within 15-30 feet in all directions.

I might just have to order a tail kit and see how it goes before pulling the trigger on the QB kit.
Click to expand...

Not a bad plan, plus you can do your riveting during the day when everyone should be at work. Insulating your shop will help too.

Building the tail, you can back rivet most of the skins which is significantly quiter. Squeezing rivets is also silent (lots but not all can be squoze).

Like others have said, the actual act of riveting is not that time consuming. It's the drilling/deburring/dimpling/prep work that happens before hand. Using an air drill with an oilfree compressor nonstop will be more of a nusance, but you can mitigate that with a good cordless drill.

The 7 wings need one skin riveted on each, with a partner takes an hour each. The fuselage has two skins too. As was mentioned probably 80% or more of the riveting is done for you. I'd venture I've spent less than 8 hours total riveting the QB stuff, sans empennage.

Build a Sonex, you're always going to be jealous of the RV "ramp fleas" that will be at every airport you go to!
 
DonFromTX said:
Not sure of your needs, but compared to a Sonex, why not do an RV12? Absolutely NO banged rivets, very quiet to assemble, and the cockpit is wider than theRV7 you are considering.!
Click to expand...

The RV-12 looks great, but aerobatic capability is #1 on my requirements list! I like to get upside down as often as I can :)

Sig600 said:
Build a Sonex, you're always going to be jealous of the RV "ramp fleas" that will be at every airport you go to!
Click to expand...

That is what I'm worried about. While the Sonex does meet 95% of my mission, it just doesn't quite have the same appeal to me as an RV.
 
I picked up a pneumatic C squeezer. I bet I've done close to 50% of my riveting with it......silence!
Not to mention perfect uniform rivets. I bet your compressor will make more noise than your riveting.

The prior posts are correct in that most of your time is not spent riveting, but deburring, dimpling, etc.
 
Most people who know nothing about aviation are usually intrigued by homebuilding. Is it possible that you might be able to get your neighbor(s) excited/involved?
 
Tight quarters

Sounds like you are almost in a confined space. Two thoughts - since you will be working mostly on Saturday and Sunday??? - plan your activities to go from 1000-1800 or so. A lot of rivets can be driven working mostly on the weekend. Also, do your research here on the VAF before you purchase your air compressor. The wrong type or a small one will be 'on' a lot of the time while you are riveting/drilling, etc.

RV-7 is an awesome choice. Good hunting.
 
I agree with the other posters. Especially if you're able to pick up a pneumatic squeezer, time spent with a rivet gun and bucking bar really isn't all that much - even with a slow-build kit. And it can usually be lumped into big jobs that you could do during the day on a weekend.

I find that compressor noise is a way bigger nuisance. I deburr most parts with a scotchbrite pad or wheel on a die grinder, and the noise between the die grinder and compressor is significant. There are certainly less noisy ways to deburr - by hand with a piece of sandpaper is one way.
 
I built my emmpenage in a 1950's era duplex. My "shop" was adjacent to a 7 year old girl's bedroom. I ordered my kit, set up shop, and told my neighbor what I was going to be doing. He said his daughter went to bed at 0800. I asked when they woke in the morning especially on the weekends. We agreed on decent time for riveting and running the compressor. He brought out some of his home brew and we cheered. End of story.

Build the airplane you want. I would find an alternate location to build if it didn't work out or move before I let my neighborly concerns dictate what kind of plane I was going to build. Starting with only the emmpenage is a good idea anyway.

Jerry
RV-8 N84JE
 
krw5927 said:
I agree with the other posters. Especially if you're able to pick up a pneumatic squeezer, time spent with a rivet gun and bucking bar really isn't all that much - even with a slow-build kit. And it can usually be lumped into big jobs that you could do during the day on a weekend.

I find that compressor noise is a way bigger nuisance. I deburr most parts with a scotchbrite pad or wheel on a die grinder, and the noise between the die grinder and compressor is significant. There are certainly less noisy ways to deburr - by hand with a piece of sandpaper is one way.
Click to expand...


I chucked my scotchbrite wheel in a mandrel and mounted it in the drill press. Brilliant idea that I can't claim as my own.
 
E. D. Eliot said:
Sounds like you are almost in a confined space. Two thoughts - since you will be working mostly on Saturday and Sunday??? - plan your activities to go from 1000-1800 or so.
Click to expand...

It's not really a confined space - my garage is about 45'x11'. It *is* a high population density neighborhood, though (I live in one of the town houses around here: http://goo.gl/maps/jApFT). I will probably do what you've described and limit any riveting or other loud activities to weekend afternoons.

I'm also planning on building an enclosure for the air compressor which should help cut down on some of the noise too.
 
Are you dead set on building? You could buy one already flying, get most of the benefits of owning an E-AB aircraft and never set a single rivet.
 
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