Phil

Well Known Member
I am ordering a part for the 4th time. I busted my tail for 2 days deburring the VS doubler, only to screw up a countersink. It hasn't always been a countersink problem, but it was this time.

This photo needs no explanation, but it pretty much describes my emotions.

What's the most number of times you've had to order a part?

FP14102007A0001J.jpg
 
Hey Phil,

The tool does look to be dug in pretty deep. You will order parts, it's part of the build (pun intended). That's where measure three times and cut once comes into play. Don't let it get you down! Have some spare sheet material different thickness and angle around so you can draw out a new piece, hit the bandsaw and move on. I found this really helps. Oh, and the plane is not going to be perfect... :eek:
 
On the early stages of emp, and already I have ordered new parts. If I continue on this statistics, I would be better off ordering two kits to start with :(

"Measure twice, cut once" is a good rule, but "be awake when drilling" should allso be there :)
 
I messed up one of my HS spar pieces last week by countersinking all of the holes on one flange too far. Hopefully the new one will get here sometime this week.

I was trying to go too fast. If I had slowed down, and checked my work more often, I would not have made the mistake. Fortunately there is plenty of other work to do while I wait for Fedex. I moved on to the VS, finished that yesterday, and now I'm nearly done with the rudder.

What really surprises me is how much time we spend on each rivet. If you add up the time spent clamping, drilling, deburring, dimpling/sinking, and riveting, what would it come out to per rivet? 45 seconds? More?
 
"Measure twice, cut once" is a good rule, but "be awake when drilling" should allso be there :)
Yeah, I made a few mistakes when I was tired, and pushing to complete some task before stopping for the night. I eventually learned that it was better to stop early than have to spend three extra hours fixing the mistakes from working when I was too tired. And, some days you simply aren't as sharp as others. You have to learn to recognize those days, and either stop working, or switch to working on things where errors are not critical, or are easily corrected.

This is a marathon, not a sprint. Take the long term view.
 
I HAVE VAN'S ON SPEED DIAL. THEY DON'T EVEN ASK FOR MY CREDIT CARD NUMBER ANY MORE.:eek:
UPS OFFERED TO RE-PAVE MY DRIVEWAY:rolleyes:
 
more than i would like to admit

when i started i asked one of the guys at vans this very question. he carefully dodged the question with oh you'll buy a few pieces. as i said before im gonna build a static display with all of the left over parts.:rolleyes:
 
If you're anything like me you'll have the occasional streak of bad luck. During such periods it seems like a good day is one where you get nothing done, but you don't ruin anything either.

I'm not sure how many times I've ordered a part, but I have primed the same part three times. It was a small doubler that goes on the interior of the belly to double the antenna mount. I wanted the side that mates to the belly skin bare so that it would form a good ground with the skin. It was countersunk to receive nutplates, so there shouldn't have been any confusion about which side to prime. I even remember thinking about it very carefully to make sure I sprayed the correct side. WRONG! I stripped it clean the next day, flipped it over (twice evidently) and shot the exact same side again. AARGH!

This stuff is gonna happen -- just enjoy the process. :D
 
Lets also not scare new builders. It isn't, or shouldn't, only be a long string of blunders either. The other side of this is a combination of being careful and creative when presented with self imposed "challenges". Very few of these parts can't be simply fabricated on the spot if you have some extra sheet and angle appropriately sized. Talk to a -3 builder and ask them what would constitute being stuck because of waiting for new parts. It would be something like "...the whole shop burned down and I didn't have raw materials to form that bulkhead with." Just a little perspective for those not yet down this path.
 
Some of the local builders joked that you could build an RV-3 with the parts I didn't use on my -9.

Just remember, when you catch yourself saying, "I can make this tool work." Stop and order the correct tool. Otherwise you will be ordering the correct tool and a replacement part. Just ask me how I know.
 
Some of the local builders joked that you could build an RV-3 with the parts I didn't use on my -9.

Just remember, when you catch yourself saying, "I can make this tool work." Stop and order the correct tool. Otherwise you will be ordering the correct tool and a replacement part. Just ask me how I know.


This.

I'm on my second rudder and right elevator. Also I can add that on most of these parts, they should fit together without a lot of trouble. If they don't, you've probably made a mistake somewhere. Listen to that little voice that tells you "this doesn't seem right." Experience plays a key part in intercepting mistakes before they happen, which is why I look upon my last rudder and elevator as course materials for the school of metal aircraft building.
 
you cant scare true builders

Lets also not scare new builders. .

a true builder cant be discouraged from the process. they all think they are better than the rest and it wont happen to them. some even have a problem recalling the many blunders thay make.if you build and dont replace/ remake something im worried about your quality. if this does scare them away its for the best.
 
Lucky me

So far all I've had to order more parts for has been my trim tab. I have no idea how I screwed it up the first time but the hinge was terible. Paid very close attention and worked very slowly on the next one (after getting the new ordered parts from Van's). It came out nearly perfect and the scary thing is that I don't think I did anything different!?!?!:confused:

The only other thing that had to be re-ordered were the top main inboard wing skins. For some reason they sent me two RV-10 top inboard skins in the wing kit. I discovered this during the inventory and I called, they immediately sent me the correct skins - no fuss - no muss.
 
Oops, times three

It took me three tries to get the elevator trim tab right. The first time was a mess, nasty twist to it. The second time was fine, but not to our standards. The third time it came out very nice. It isn't a difficult part to build, but we just didn't get right the first two times.

As Van says, you're not building a Swiss watch, it's an airplane. You will make mistakes, everyone does, but most of the time it can be salvaged. When it can't, order parts.

Building is a lot of fun, you can't let the occasional goof up get you frustrated.
 
Lemons to Lemonade

Unlike the -6A in which I spent an obscene amount of money on replacement parts and shipping costs, I managed to build most of the -8 project almost without incident.....until now. I thought I would be clever and install the oil cooler very high on the rear baffle. Imagine my chagrin when the upper cowl interfered with my shortsighted engineering effort. So...late last week, I had to order a total of five replacement baffle parts at a cost of $78 not including shipping. I look at the bright side. There are a lot of factory bends in baffle parts and I take advantage of many of such bends when fabricating parts for special projects. This is my scrap pile...a monument to one man's imperfection...and it is often that I rummage through it for stock. Just yesterday, I found and cut up some small pieces of .063 stock to fabricate filler plates for installation behind the prop spinner.

 
Well like Gene Littlefield says

I don't know how many of you have run into or know Gene Littlefield, but he flew the opening of the Oshkosh Air Show for years in his big Stearman and is known for his wing walking routine with his wife on top. Any way, Gene is a friend and when talking to him about the stuff I had to buy as replacements he said; "Unless you have one and a half planes, you're not building!" I'm not quite to 1/2 extra but I do have a lot of extra aluminum around!

Paul
N694BP reserved
 
Order new parts?

I've only had to order one new part. Generally, when I make a mistake, I find a way to fix it, using the materials on hand. When I built the tanks, I broke one of the fuel pickup tubes. Apparently, it is not a good idea to try to bend the tubes after you cut the slots near the end of the tubes. Unfortunately, Van doesn't give you any extra for most of the parts, and there was only enough tubing to make two fuel pickups, so that had to be reordered.

Just think of this as an opportunity to buy some of the extra supplies that you think you might need later. Not to fix things so much as to be able to add something special to your kit down the road. Like when you want to add access panels to the rear baggage area. Like I said, not to fix a problem, such as forgetting to bolt the seat belt tie downs prior to riveting on the baggage floor, but rather so you can inspect that area later.

Now, if you want to know how many screw-ups I have made that could have been solved with a new part. Well, I don't keep track of those things, but certainly the number is less than dozens.

Build on,
Tracy.
 
How many times?

How many times have I ordered parts?

Do you mean this week?

Took me 3 tries to build a LH aileron.

But....when its finally right all is well!

I guess we can take the scrap AL to the metal yard....

Dave
 
spares?

I've had to replace two small... thick parts...edge distance drilling issues on the empanage. I figured, if it's thick, it's a structual piece. Well, you all know who's but is in the left seat when you're finished, and flying this thing. I don't mess with structural things, so it get's replaced. Don't even think about the price! As for aesthetics, well then it's a judgment call.
 
Not a disaster

Lets also not scare new builders. It isn't, or shouldn't, only be a long string of blunders either.

True. My count at the moment is 1 aileron leading edge due to a crack in a dimple from me not paying attention and smacking the dimple too far off center and it would not respond to 43.13 repair methods.... I also have about 6 NAS oops rivets installed. This is over 1000 man hrs of slow build construction, so the error rate can be low.
 
A lot of parts reordering doesn't involve "blunders." It involves knowing you can do better.

BTW, I notice one name missing from this thread. If I recall correctly (something that doesn't happen much anymore), Paul Dye built his plane while ordering only one replacement part.
 
Yeah, But......

BTW, I notice one name missing from this thread. If I recall correctly (something that doesn't happen much anymore), Paul Dye built his plane while ordering only one replacement part.

Well yes, that's true Bob - but then I spent a couple hours last night trying to time my mags to TDC instead of 25 degrees BTDC.....we all screw things up now and again!:(

Building without re-ordering spare parts? A lot of it comes from personality and experience - I was trained by my grandfather (whose garage looked like the old gentleman's in "World's Fastest Indian"...) to never waste material, and measure many times before cutting or drilling. I also have worked on airplanes long enough to know when "good" is "good enough"...I rarely try to achieve perfection, because I know I never can.

And I was also building a QB, so a lot of the potential mistakes were already made for me....:rolleyes:

For the record, I re-ordered the flap hinge - drilled it without checking how the trailing edges lined up with the ailerons, and didn't like the results!

Paul
 
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parts i've ordered

off the top of my head -- i'm sure there are more that i've forgotten:

rudder support horn
trim tab skin
trim tab spar
trim tab horns
187 x 2 x 2-1/2 angle for firewall lower supports
125 x 1 x 1-1/2 angle for lower longeron (cracked when i twisted it)
center support for rudder weldements
fuel pump cover
fuel selector cover

as you can guess, i'm not too good at remembering part numbers, but i've ordered all of these due to my screw-ups. as i said before, i'm sure there's more that don't come to mind. ;)

that's not to mention other parts that i've fabricated more than once -- i've ordered a lot of extra 125 x 3/4 x 3/4 angle and .032 sheet. there's a little support made out of 032 x 3/4 x 3/4 about 2 inches long that goes at the back of the top rib and connects to the bulkhead (706?) that i built 4 times -- put it on the wrong side of the rib, didn't get the holes to line up, etc. i also recall building several times the pieces of angle where the fuel tank front attach bracket screws to the skin -- i seemed to have a tough time cutting the diagonal the wrong direction.

so what? you fix your mistakes and move on.
 
Some of the stuff I screw up, probably isn't a screw up. But I expect a whole lot out of myself.

So I end up ordering parts again and again.

I've heard two good pieces of advice.

1) Keep some spare sheets around to make your own replacement parts. I will be adding a few sheets onto my next spruce orders.

2) A wise man once said, "I also have worked on airplanes long enough to know when 'good' is 'good enough'...I rarely try to achieve perfection, because I know I never can. "
 
Parts re-order

:)I made two left hand items and had to re-order one part on a RV6 slow build. This was my second kit. I built a Kitfox in 1993 and re-ordered many parts due to poor quality.
My brother is building the RV10 and has had to order two items due to instruction leading him down a path that destroyed a part. He has the tail and wings complete so two is not bad.
 
No more than once pert part

...so far.

I've ordered maybe half a dozen parts that I screwed up, but I don't think I've screwed up the same part twice yet. Of course, I'm not done yet.
 
I don't think I've screwed up the same part twice yet. Of course, I'm not done yet.

I remember when I ordered the trim tab for the second time, I bought TWO more. Just in case.

Also bought two replacements for the aft channel on the tip up canopy. Van's nicked me on that one. They only sell 'em in pairs.
 
I'm convinced that Van's make more money selling replacement parts than they make on the kits. You can tell you're building an airplane when you've memorized all the suppliers phone numbers and your credit card number.